Desktop vs Notebook

[MonGooS]

Hey guys

I wasn't sure if I should post this in Hardware upgrade or make a new thread. Seeing one of the options is technically not an upgrade I thought i would just create a new Thread.

I am at a crossroad here, I have a choice between upgrading my current PC (a desktop PC) or buying a new notebook laptop. I was going around the range of a Alienware notebook at around R20000. Do you guys think it would be worth it at all ?

For now I have school till the end of next year. But after that I am off to America for half a year and after that its studying. Do you think it would be a waste to get it now ? Would it be out of date by that time and be worthless. Since you generally can't upgrade a laptop. Would it even be able to play the newer games out there and is a notebook comfortable to play on ?

Or should I just upgrade my PC for now and sell it at the end of next year and invest in a notebook.

[Tryxst3r]

Interesting question. I believe Neo Sibeko covered that topic a couple of issues back. I'll have to check the exact issue; but, ironically, it was also based on a R20k rig.

[MonGooS]

Can you remember the conclusion ^_^ ?

[Chibi]

I know you can upgrade RAM so far on a notebook. I'm not too sure what else there is atm to upgrade a notebook. Another thing is look at how much you are willing to pay for the notebook and the upgrade of your desktop is my sugestion and work from there

[MonGooS]

Thats the thing, I know I can get a REALLY good Desktop PC for R20000 and just a Good Notebook pc for R20000 my question is. Is it worth buying the notepad in the long run and as a general hardcore gamer.

[Wesley]

Hey guys

I wasn't sure if I should post this in Hardware upgrade or make a new thread. Seeing one of the options is technically not an upgrade I thought i would just create a new Thread.

I am at a crossroad here, I have a choice between upgrading my current PC (a desktop PC) or buying a new notebook laptop. I was going around the range of a Alienware notebook at around R20000. Do you guys think it would be worth it at all ?

For now I have school till the end of next year. But after that I am off to America for half a year and after that its studying. Do you think it would be a waste to get it now ? Would it be out of date by that time and be worthless. Since you generally can't upgrade a laptop. Would it even be able to play the newer games out there and is a notebook comfortable to play on ?

Or should I just upgrade my PC for now and sell it at the end of next year and invest in a notebook.

Well, for R20k, you could do better than an Alien. The Alien range used to suffer from heat problems, and the battery life still leaves a lot to be desired (but you'll probably be plugged into a wall anyway. If you want to spend north of R20k, then buy an Alien by all means, but I prefer a more all-round solution. For advice concerning Alien laptops, read this thread (http://forums.prophecy.co.za/f76/advice-alienware-laptops-worth-62406/) (wtf, is that you Chev???), and you can pm Ch@ps to see if he knows where to get one.

The Dell XPS range is pretty good, my favourite is the Dell XPS 16 (http://www.jump.co.za/product/dell-xps-16-notebook-2ghz-4gb-vista-ultimate-15416242.htm). HDMI, 4GB RAM, graphics by an ATi HD3670, a Core 2 Duo @ 2Ghz, and Vista Utimate round off a very nice 15.6" package.

However, I feel it is overshadowed by my favorite laptop of all time: the Acer TravelMate 7730G (http://www.jump.co.za/product/acer-travelmate-7730g-tm7730g-844g64bn-notebook-11759036.htm). It's built on the Mobile45 chipset, which makes it comparable to a desktop with the P45 chipset. For R19,260, its probably the best all-round machine you can buy.


Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 (3MB L2 Cache, 2.26GHz, 1066MHz),
17 WXGA+ (CrystalBrite),
NVIDIA GeForce 9300M with up to 2047MB of TurboCache (256MB of dedicated DDR2 VRAM, up to 1791MB of shared system
memory),
4GB (2*2048MB) DDR2,
2 x 320GB HDD,
Blu-ray Disc Drive,
802.11a/b/g/Draft-N WLAN,
Gigabit LAN,
4 USB, Bluetooth,
6 Cell Battery,
PC Card slot (Type II),
5-in-1 Card Reader,
HDMI port,
Finger Print Reader,
0.3MP Acer CrystalEye Webcam,
Acer EasyPort IV Connector,
Vista Business (XP CD in Box).


http://computersrus.co.za/catalog/images/LXTPL0Z149.JPG

Edit: I found something I missed, the MSI GX720. This is my favourite laptop so far ^_^ Screw Acer! (oh, and it costs R20,242).


Intel Centrino 2 Pentium Dual Core @ 2,26Ghz
4GB RAM
Windows Vista(R) Home Premium 64-bit
320GB HDD
Blu-ray drive
17" TFT-LCD Widescreen Display
NVIDIA Geforce 9600M GT 3D Graphic Card with DDR3 512 MBVRAM
Theater-Class 5 Speakers
HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) Output
Built-in 2.0 Mega Pixel Webcam
802.11 b/g/n Wireless LAN with Bluetooth


Dont be fooled, that Dual-core is a proper Core 2 Duo on a Mobile45 chipset.

http://gadgets.softpedia.com/images/news/MSI-GX720-Notebook-Review-2.jpg

[MonGooS]

Whoa Wesely that laptop is great :) Thanks for the contribution. If I decide to get a laptop that one will be top of my list. I always just thought Alienware was top of the line in gaming notebooks.

But back to the question... Will it run games as well as a desktop PC of the same Specs, Is it comfortable to play games on (I'm talking CoD4, Fallout 3, Guild Wars etc) and is it going to be worth it 2 years down the line ?

[Lysis]

As far as I remember, the article written by Neo in Nag was highly unfavourable to laptops. The conclusion ran somewhere along the lines that if you had an extra R20k to burn after getting yourself a high-end pc then go for it, but as far as gaming goes a laptop will not cut it. The specs you get for a R20k laptop come nowhere near the specs you could get for the same price on a desktop. Just look at the laptop Wesley has recommended. It has a 9600GT, in a R20k desktop one would expect to find either a top of the range Nvidia card or two 4870s running in Crossfire.

[Ch@pS]

NAG, February 2009 issue, page 78, my column, Reviewers Diary. Hope that helps.

[MonGooS]

Great column, surprised I missed it. Its helped me quite a bit :)

[Wesley]

But back to the question... Will it run games as well as a desktop PC of the same Specs, Is it comfortable to play games on (I'm talking CoD4, Fallout 3, Guild Wars etc) and is it going to be worth it 2 years down the line ?

Yes, I know for a fact the MSI will play COD4 on highish settings with good fps. Fallout3 will run smoothly as well. in fact, the MSI will play any game you can lug at it, but you'll have to tone down the settings for certain games. Crysis, for instance, will run at 30fps on the native resolution with medium settings, but there's no choppy scenes anywhere.

You talked about moving to America, and I think getting a laptop to lug along is the best possible move. I have a laptop, I love it: I cant imagine my life without anime on the move ;-) It plays games too, and instead of lugging a heavy pc to a LAN, I can take this and laugh at them setting up while I'm already playing.


As far as I remember, the article written by Neo in Nag was highly unfavourable to laptops. The conclusion ran somewhere along the lines that if you had an extra R20k to burn after getting yourself a high-end pc then go for it, but as far as gaming goes a laptop will not cut it. The specs you get for a R20k laptop come nowhere near the specs you could get for the same price on a desktop. Just look at the laptop Wesley has recommended. It has a 9600GT, in a R20k desktop one would expect to find either a top of the range Nvidia card or two 4870s running in Crossfire.

But you see, Mongoos is leaving the country, and a laptop would serve him better there. Although you are right about the drop in performance, its the portability that one is paying for. Wouldn't you like to play GTAIV while on a long flight overseas, or watch anime while traveling in a car? With a laptop, you're buying the privilege of computing technology being at your fingertips whenever, wherever. Its rather unfair to compare the PC and a laptop purely on price terms, since both platforms are designed for, and capable of, different things.

[Wesley]

I know you can upgrade RAM so far on a notebook. I'm not too sure what else there is atm to upgrade a notebook.

A lot has changed with regards to upgradeability. There are a few models out there that have an MXM slot for upgradeable graphics. You can change the hard drive, memory, CPU (might bit tricky), and even the heatsinks can be upgraded. Laptops are fast catching up to the desktop in terms of upgrades and value-for-money - just look at the Acer I recommended to see what i mean.


Whoa Wesely that laptop is great :) Thanks for the contribution. If I decide to get a laptop that one will be top of my list. I always just thought Alienware was top of the line in gaming notebooks.

Alien was, and still is (to a point), the king of gaming laptops, but they've never been ideal, or within the price range of most. The highest-spec Alienware I know of costs R40k, with a Core i7 940, 6GB DDR3-1066 RAM, Nvidia 9800GT-M in SLI, full 1080p screen, and the ability to overclock everything. Its good, but the price, to me at least, doesn't justify the performance.

[GeometriX]

I know this is outside of your budget but if you're willing to stretch to R25K you can't go wrong with the MSI GT 727 (http://www.pcmall.co.za/moreinfo.asp?sku=MSI-GT727) (although it should be coming down in price, RRP is R22K).

Core2 Quad 2GHz, 4 gigs of DDR3, Mobility 4850 (same stuff as the desktop version, just lower clocks) Blu-ray combo drive, 17" screen and it can manage over an hour's gaming on the 9-cell battery (or a good two-to-three hours of work stuff).

I just reviewed it for SACM and I was very impressed. CoD 5 and UT 3 were buttery smooth at full settings. Crysis Warhead was smooth at mixed mainstream/gamer settings.

[Wesley]

I know this is outside of your budget but if you're willing to stretch to R25K you can't go wrong with the MSI GT 727 (http://www.pcmall.co.za/moreinfo.asp?sku=MSI-GT727) (although it should be coming down in price, RRP is R22K).

Core2 Quad 2GHz, 4 gigs of DDR3, Mobility 4850 (same stuff as the desktop version, just lower clocks) Blu-ray combo drive, 17" screen and it can manage over an hour's gaming on the 9-cell battery (or a good two-to-three hours of work stuff).

0_0

Wow. That is so beautiful...I wish I was rich! :sob:

[FEN1X]

I too was thinking about taking a gap year, but to London, and getting an Alienware Laptop. As for specs go, they are the best, and are also much cheaper to buy over there. But unless you are rolling in the $$$, a "gaming" laptop just isn't worth it. If I were you, I would buy a cheaper laptop over there, a nice Alienware 10K should suit you fine for the one year, and when you come back get a really decent desktop to be your proper gaming station.

[Ch@pS]

Only go for a gaming laptop if you have a monster desktop. Is mobility worth so much?

@ Mongoos - Thanks, I aim to please. :P

Funny, I write a column about why a gaming laptop is a total ripoff, and yet I'm looking around to get one myself. :/

I want one just for lanning though, so it only needs to play COD 4 and 5, Warcraft, starcraft et al. Hence the reason I'm looking at this : link (http://www.laptopdirect.co.za/laptop_specifications.php?laptop=24674). This is only because my monster is sitting at home, able to handle the rest of the best.

This (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html) is extremely helpful when considering a gaming laptop.

[Chevron]

Why not get both?

You can get one of those Toshibas with a 3650 for R13000 or I saw an HP at Incredible connection with a 9600GT for R15000, then use the left over R7000-R5000 and upgrade your pc.

[B4warn3d]

I got myself an Acer Aspire 6935G about 3 weeks ago for R13000, And I must say that i'm very happy with it so far, Because I too was all against the Laptop being ripoffs thing.

Stats are : Intel C2D 2.0Ghz 800Mhz FSB
16" CineCrystal LCD
Nvidia Geforce 9600GT with 512 DDR3 dedicated ram (up to 1719Mb Turbocache)
4Gb DDR3 RAM
320 Gb HDD
And then all the other bells and whistles of wifi a/b/g/n, Bluetooth, Card reader ect.

It has decent 3 to 4 hours of on time when you're just doing work, which is more than enough for me, And about 1 to 2 hours if you're gaming, But I recommend you plug it in when you do.

The graphics card on this lappy can handle most games at High specs but for the more demanding games like COD4 ect. you would have to set all to medium. (or if you choose, leave it on high details and lower the resolution)

Like I said, I was all against the entire Notebook thing, But after getting this lappy I must say I am very happy with it, Not only does it allow mobile computing, But also Mobile gaming thanks to the dedicated gfx.

So this laptop I have gets a very high thumbs up from me.

[Wanbalans]

I bought a Acer Aspire 6920 for around R7500

Specs are
Intel C2D 2.0Ghz
16" HD LCD
ATI HD3650 512DDR3 dedicated and 1719Mb shared
3Gb DDR2
250Gb HDD
a/b/g/draft n wireless

I can play all the latest games and screen resolution is amazing (although i dumped the small screen for a 24" acer P244w HD screen which is around R3000).

Im sure there is a newer version of my lappy but specs will be more or less the same

I would not go for an alien, if you realy want a hardcore gaming machine rather get an desktop, laptops cpu's are not as good as desktops(and much more expensive)

[Wesley]

I would not go for an alien, if you realy want a hardcore gaming machine rather get an desktop, laptops cpu's are not as good as desktops(and much more expensive)

Actually, laptop CPU's are comparable to budget desktop models, with the exception being the new range of 45nm CPU's on the GE45 chipset. Even the new quad-cores are comparable to their desktop counterparts nowadays. The chips aren't weak in any way, and the only difference between them and a desktop chip is the cache and TDP. The Athlon Dual-core in the HP Pavilion I wrote about in my article (http://nag.tidemedia.co.za/?p=1445) is about the same as the Athlon X2 5200, just with a lower TDP and clockspeed.

[Wanbalans]

Actually, laptop CPU's are comparable to budget desktop models, with the exception being the new range of 45nm CPU's on the GE45 chipset. Even the new quad-cores are comparable to their desktop counterparts nowadays. The chips aren't weak in any way, and the only difference between them and a desktop chip is the cache and TDP. The Athlon Dual-core in the HP Pavilion I wrote about in my article (http://nag.tidemedia.co.za/?p=1445) is about the same as the Athlon X2 5200, just with a lower TDP and clockspeed.

I have got a desktop and a notebook with the same (same speed, cache ect) same amount of ram and more or less the same gfx card, and the desktop out performs the notebook by far.

[Wesley]

I have got a desktop and a notebook with the same (same speed, cache ect) same amount of ram and more or less the same gfx card, and the desktop out performs the notebook by far.

You seem to have missed my point, though:



Actually, laptop CPU's are comparable to budget desktop models

And comparing the notebook CPU to a similarly-specced desktop model isn't the right way to be looking at it, this isn't a clear-cut apples-to-apples comparison.The two might have the same cache and clockspeed, but the notebook one has a lower power envelope to work in, so it sacrifices some performance to fall into the low-power range. When I mentioned the budget range, I meant it: Intel's T3400 probably has similar performance to the E1400, but it packs a hell of a lot more features to make the chip more attractive. Likewise, the T4200, which is the T3400 on a 45nm process, has performance more in line with the E2200.

Intel's quads and i7 notebook chips are a different story altogether, since they CAN be directly compared to their desktop counterparts, the i7 in particular losing very little performance when crammed into a notebook.

[Wanbalans]

You seem to have missed my point, though:




And comparing the notebook CPU to a similarly-specced desktop model isn't the right way to be looking at it, this isn't a clear-cut apples-to-apples comparison.The two might have the same cache and clockspeed, but the notebook one has a lower power envelope to work in, so it sacrifices some performance to fall into the low-power range. When I mentioned the budget range, I meant it: Intel's T3400 probably has similar performance to the E2180, but it packs a hell of a lot more features to make the chip more attractive. Likewise, the T4200, which is the T3400 on a 45nm process, has performance more in line with the E5200.

Intel's quads and i7 notebook chips are a different story altogether, since they CAN be directly compared to their desktop counterparts, the i7 in particular losing very little performance when crammed into a notebook.

Oh okay, is there a lappy available with an i7 yet?

[Wesley]

Oh okay, is there a lappy available with an i7 yet?

Uh, so far as I know, the i7 notebooks aren't widely available in South Africa. The best ones are, of course, the Alienware models, but they cost close on R50k when converting from Dollars.

And, well, its like a Bugatti Veyron, really. Looks great, performs great, weighs a tonne or two. And it needs four (4!!!!) freakin fans to keep the stupid thing cool. Battery life is non-existent - its not even useful having one, might be cheaper to chuck it altogether.

Here's a discussion on it, with pics. (http://forums.prophecy.co.za/f174/laptop-core-i7-xe965-gtx280m-sli-64077/) God, if you're listening, I would really like one :-P

[Wanbalans]

Uh, so far as I know, the i7 notebooks aren't widely available in South Africa. The best ones are, of course, the Alienware models, but they cost close on R50k when converting from Dollars.

And, well, its like a Bugatti Veyron, really. Looks great, performs great, weighs a tonne or two. And it needs four (4!!!!) freakin fans to keep the stupid thing cool. Battery life is non-existent - its not even useful having one, might be cheaper to chuck it altogether.

Here's a discussion on it, with pics. (http://forums.prophecy.co.za/f174/laptop-core-i7-xe965-gtx280m-sli-64077/) God, if you're listening, I would really like one :-P

I can just imagine what sort of cooling that thing must have.
Maybe get liquid cooling for notebooks :D

Maybe you can put it on your wishlist and send it to Santa, but remember to be a good boy this year :P

[Ch@pS]

Liquid cooling in a laptop would be retarded. No space for Rads, the pump would draw way too much power(if they put something decent in), and the weight increase wouldn't justify it.

[Wesley]

Liquid cooling in a laptop would be retarded. No space for Rads, the pump would draw way too much power(if they put something decent in), and the weight increase wouldn't justify it.

I agree, the laptop's width would have to be the same as a brick in order to fit everything in. I remember there being a CPU cooler in the works that used gas to draw away the heat to the fins, so perhaps some company out there could be clever and design one to fit into a notebook and replace the space normally taken up by the fans and heatsink. I know my lappie would take a tiny watercooling kit because it has lots of empty space between the chassis and the motherboard.

[Wanbalans]

Liquid cooling in a laptop would be retarded. No space for Rads, the pump would draw way too much power(if they put something decent in), and the weight increase wouldn't justify it.

I know this, was just joking when i said it

[dolfieman]

Mongoos, go with Chev's idea. Maybe even go for the Toshiba Satellite A300D-17E (http://nag.tidemedia.co.za/?p=1445). Wesley did an article on it on the NAG site.

Getting one tomorrow, for R9750.00. So that would leave you with a 10K whopper to blow on your rig.
If you are not going to move your Desktop(I presume you are, hence the question Desktop vs Notebook) blow it all on the MSI Wesley or Geo recommended.