NAG September question

[Priest]

New month, new question! Manhunt 2 got banned or heavily rated in a lot of markets. The fact that it was heading for the hands-on Wii might have played a role in that. Do you think the censorship was heavy-handed or might some games be pushing it a bit too far?

Ps. Only answers. Conversation threads will be deleted.

[wisp]

The fact that so little games actually get banned makes me think that maybe this game went a little too far.

[Chevron]

Do you think the censorship was heavy-handed or might some games be pushing it a bit too far?

The censorship is heavy handed. By banning something, whatever it is, you remove freedom of choice. Governments shouldn't babysit their citizens. Parents should have the choice to not allow their children to play the game. While I should have the choice to play the game. The people who dislike the game should have the freedom to NOT buy it.

[Frozenfireside]

Do youthink the censorship was heavy-handed or might some games be pushing it a bit too far?

I think its both-Games are always pushing the limits and so the censorship ratings need to follow the change and adapt.
Parents should always be knowledgeable of their childs acts. I think this is just another step in the evolution of games and their search for unique content.
Anyone remember the stir that GTA caused? This is the SSDD.

[X-Ploding_Shoes]

Frankly I think that cencorship is being way to heavy handed. Sure you can give something a heavy rating but banning it is taking away our right to chose to buy this or that sick game/movie/music. People should decide what games they buy, not their Governments.

[brazed]

Who decides what it means to go too far? I'm not convinced politicians have the right to decide our morals for us. Anyone who's seen Hostel and even SAW, can rightly look at this with mouths agape. It is nonsensical, in so much, that it feels like a double standard seems to apply when it comes to video games. I guess the next question one should ask, even given an AO rating, why is no-one willing to sell the game or support it on their platforms? Isn't that also a case of censorship? Even more blatant?

Anyway, censorships serves no-one, much like star force copy-protection. It's pathetic, that in this day and age, people still feel it necessary to tell the public what's good for them.

[PloPshoP]

Do you think the censorship was heavy-handed or might some games be pushing it a bit too far?

The censorship was heavy handed. I don't believe that one should really call label the censorship/banning as being in the interest of morals and the public. Politicians lobby for these causes for one reason only: voters. They want to get the game banned and be the hero of the day. Like in sport, there is no place for politics in gaming.

[Azimuth]

Censorship in any form is insidious and has no place in a society that claims democracy. What next? A PMRC reunion?

[LazyDemoni]

Censorship might be justified as a way to protect the public but we live in the so called "information age" so nobody has an excuse for not knowing. I agree that things which are proven to incite hate or violence should be banned but video games have not been proven to do this.

[echo]

Governments are there to govern and serve, not dictate. The choice should be ours.

[Fredder]

In my opinion the game developers were pushing it too far. Its just too brutal. . .

[BLACKWOLF]

Man hunt is controversial and is not banned without reason. But I think it should not be banned. My opinion is that must people should decide what they buy and what they want for entertainment. Manhunt should just be kept away for small kids, that is the job of parents and shop keepers.

[Repline]

Sometimes government intervention is neccesary; Like in sport, we all know the rules, but we almost never play fair sometimes a refree is needed. Pushing it too far should have it's consequences.

[Rebbo_Reformed]

I believe that many violent games should be banned, but then again I don't really play those kind of games, I just don't like the thought of my nephews playing that game. ;-)

[edg3]

Games should be allowed to push boundaries a little further, but understand that censorship is there to protect the youth, whether they care or not, and they can carry on making games like these, if they can live with the consequences of limiting their own markets.

[Headshot]

Banning a game is retarded. Seriously, it's just a freakin' video game. Contrary to what some politicians may say, it doesn't hurt anyone nor does it turn them into blood-thirsty killers.

[Q-Man]

Listen, you make the games, and I will decide if it's too brutal or not for ME. Last I checked, I was more than capable of making my own decisions in life, and I don't need some politician telling me what I can or can no play. If parents don't like the game's content, make sure your kids don't play. Simple.

If they can make movies like Hostel and Saw, then you can bet your sweet, char-grilled ass that they have every right to make a game like Manhunt.

[RedNax]

[Deleted by admin: discussion is not allowed in this thread]

[DaBaish]

[Deleted by admin]

[Jedi]

In the past I would have definitely have said it was heavy handed, but after looking at society in general in this day and age, I’d have to say I agree with the governments of the world stepping in and saying enough is enough. I used to be a staunch believer that messed up kids were the result of bad parenting, I still hold that view, but only know I understand that without someone parenting the parents nothing will every change, the game’s main aim is to go around killing people, sure those people may be in the game as bad, but still what other drawing card does it have, I played number one and didn’t think the story was all that good, it seemed to me the games main purpose was to show gratuitous violence committed by you the player against the perceived bad guys. People are losing sight of the fact that life is precious, everyday in the news I read about kids killing kids or raping kids, hell just this morning on sky news I heard about a group of kids ( 10 and 12 year olds) who stoned a father to death while he was playing cricket with his kid’s, something like that would never have happened a couple of years ago. Kid’s have lost their innocence and unfortunately blame has to be spread around equally, bad parenting, TV, Music and gaming.

[Jub Jub]

I agree with banning games the problem in todays world is one simple thing "Advisory" parents dont check on their children they dont make it a point to get involved and top of that its easier for a kid to go buy the game in a store and probably get away with it.

[Mic]

I think that if MH2 got banned in so many markets that the developers did push it, I mean, it isn't like every 2nde game gets banned.

[DarthStorm]

We can all think for ourselves and we can all keep an eye on our own children. We don't need to bring the government into this. Banning just means an increase in pirate sales.

[dangarratt]

Reading the comments there's quite a few post-modern "moist robots" here, all spouting their version of "freedom"... what if someone else's version of freedom conflicts with your own.... for example, Why should parents have to police games? Why shouldn't I be free NOT to see or hear about such a game? And so on.
Personally, the game makes me uncomfortable, and it makes me wonder whether I shouldn't be watching my back if I find any of my friends playing it..... (;>)
I think I do agree with the ban (been having an internal debate!), as it makes it more difficult for someone to accidentally buy it, whereas those who really want it will always be able to find a way to get it (your "freedom" is not curtailed, you just need to make more effort to exercise that freedom, so that others' freedom is not curtailed).

[NettaMaya]

Freedom is a myth we are all made to believe that we have, the freedom we have is but what the goverment and all other controlling parties allow us to have, so ask yourself is controlled freedom really free, or just another way of control. Can one be in a prison where there are no bars, well the answer is yes. Now to ban games is a simple way of controlling what we can play/watch. Who gets to decide what is good or bad for us? In the beginning it all seems good, innocent and well, but just ask the germans and the jews how that ended up.

Choice is the most important factor... I must have the choice to buy something, just like you must have the right to choose not to buy something, not someone think for you what you can and cannot have...

[Kalekin]

I disagree with the banning of any game. I'm an adult and am fully capable of making my own choices. You can rate the game however you see fit and leave me to decide on whether I consider it's content acceptable.


PS. For dangarratt: "Any nation that thinks more of its ease and comfort than its freedom will soon lose its freedom; and the ironical thing about it is that it will lose its ease and comfort too." - W. Somerset Maugham

[dangarratt]

Nice quote FallenAngel. I don't know if that quote is you agreeing with me or not, as it equally applies to those gamers who want to buy the game being too caught up in the ease and comfort of being able to purchase the game with minimal hassle while trampling on the freedom of others. They will lose their freedom.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" - Wing Commander 4 ;)

For the "moist robot" reference, see Scott Adam's "philosotainment" blog (the creator of Dilbert). http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/
A moist robot is one who thinks he is free, but is really just a slave to his own impulses & influences around him. Scott argues (I think correctly) that people are not free and "free will" is an illusion. NettaMaya makes a good point, but you need to take it a bit further - all of us stomping our feet and shouting I can make my own decisions, therefore I'm free are living in an illusion, and simply toeing the current postmodern party line. True freedom is not found in having your own way (because then you just are a slave to any electrochemical whim that floats along your grey matter...), but in Jesus Christ - but that's a whole 'nother discussion, and one that forums are eminently unsuitable for!

[Blue-IcE]

One could argue this point and still be wrong. On the one hand maybe games are pushing it a little far, on the other hand its just a game and that why people play. I think its fine to have censor ship in games, that you can off course unlock :)

[RazoR89]

The fact is that its still only a game . No ones going to run around in the street killing people ... that is unless , your'e really mad and then computer games arent ment for you . (btw - Computer games are made to do things you cant do in real life , whats the point then if they ban it ?)

[cov1e_stalker]

The government shuld leave games alone, Manhunt 2 should not be band !!!111
Banning games only makes them more desireable !

[Isengard]

It's interesting. Isn't this why games are given ratings? Why totally ban the game from being released? This is just another form of dictatorship. All that talk about freedom of expression seems to be just a load of bull dust and politician talk.

[someoneelse]

Manhunt 2 is basically a murder sim, right? Sure, murder is fun and all, but I dont pity Rockstar nor those who wont get to play the game because I believe a line has to be drawn somewhere and Manhunt 2 is pushing it too far.

[dINGLE]

Adults should be able to choose what they play, and what media they are exposed to.
Children should not.

I think the reason it was banned is because ratings only work to a certain degree, no matter where in the world you go. So the only way for them to prevent children from playing it is a ban.

[Magon]

I don't think that Manhunt 2 is a murder sim. People\things die in most games, but I think Manhunt 2 was banned because its killing scenes were publicised way too much by the media. People will notice it and complain. Governments probably know shops don't enforce age ratings. Therefore the game must of had to be banned to show the government actually cares.