Why I think anime is ****

[Azimuth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlLFNM_1o-8

Yeahyeahyeah, LOST IN TRANSLATION, I'm sure. Still. Also, LOL.

[Flangenimblick]

...

...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!


I just love the final line after the line.

Awesome.

[Nferno]

Good guy is good.

[Azimuth]

I just love the final line after the line.


I knoooow. It's such an outrageous non sequitur.

[Graal]

Inb4 different strokes for different folks.

[KilR8]

STOOOOOPID Japanese Anime crap..........

[Sir PaniCore]

She Blushed after he said that?!?!?!?!

[brazed]

:/

Jesus.

Wonder what the voice actors must have been thinking...

[LazyDemoni]

But stuff does get lost in translation. That clip was pretty funny but the dubbing itself was poor. It probably sounded a lot better and made more sense in Japanese (in before weeaboo). That said some fansubs are hilarious too:

http://img188.imagevenue.com/loc120/th_66030_4_122_120lo.jpg (http://img188.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66030_4_122_120lo.jpg)http://img219.imagevenue.com/loc655/th_66030_41_122_655lo.jpg (http://img219.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66030_41_122_655lo.jpg)http://img22.imagevenue.com/loc220/th_66031_42_122_220lo.jpg (http://img22.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66031_42_122_220lo.jpg)http://img132.imagevenue.com/loc506/th_66033_43_122_506lo.jpg (http://img132.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66033_43_122_506lo.jpg)
http://img108.imagevenue.com/loc232/th_66035_44_122_232lo.jpg (http://img108.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66035_44_122_232lo.jpg)

[Miktar]

Judging a whole medium by a few cherry-picked examples of people making **** product with the medium, and then wilfully avoiding the great works in the medium just to affirm one's personal pet peeve, is always such lul.

I'll never understand people who lump "anime" together like it's supposed to mean a specific thing, more specific than Japanese Animation, which incidentally, would then include The Last Unicorn and Thundercats, since they were both produced by Japanese animation teams (Ghibli), so they're technically "anime".

It's like listening only to Britney Spears, and then saying "I hate music" because of it.

Anime is a MEDIUM, like 'comic' or 'painting' - it is not content, it is a container. It is filled, often, with ****ty content, but it also has amazing content. Disregarding the amazing stuff because of the bad stuff, to me personally, my opinion ohmigawd, seems rather lame.

Edit: But yes, that clip is very LOL, no disagreement there.

[KilR8]

Judging a whole medium by a few cherry-picked examples of people making **** product with the medium, and then wilfully avoiding the great works in the medium just to affirm one's personal pet peeve, is always such lul.

I'll never understand people who lump "anime" together like it's supposed to mean a specific thing, more specific than Japanese Animation, which incidentally, would then include The Last Unicorn and Thundercats, since they were both produced by Japanese animation teams (Ghibli), so they're technically "anime".

It's like listening only to Britney Spears, and then saying "I hate music" because of it.

Anime is a MEDIUM, like 'comic' or 'painting' - it is not content, it is a container. It is filled, often, with ****ty content, but it also has amazing content. Disregarding the amazing stuff because of the bad stuff, to me personally, my opinion ohmigawd, seems rather lame.

But what if i think that the 'container' is full of crap, so I can say "I hate anime"..........WIN for me!!!!!

[Miktar]

But what if i think that the 'container' is full of crap, so I can say "I hate anime"..........WIN for me!!!!!

No, you're just full of crap, so be quiet.

[KilR8]

No, you're just full of crap, so be quiet.

Hmmm okay nice one.....

But seriously what if there are people that dont like anime as a whole and hate everything to do with it???

[Flangenimblick]

non sequitur.


And now I just learnt a new term :D



Methinks I have to spread the quote around a bit... Lets see how many lulz it will generate from people who have no idea what I'm talking about. Weeee!

[Azimuth]

Judging a whole medium by a few cherry-picked examples of people making **** product with the medium, and then wilfully avoiding the great works in the medium just to affirm one's personal pet peeve, is always such lul.

I'll never understand people who lump "anime" together like it's supposed to mean a specific thing, more specific than Japanese Animation, which incidentally, would then include The Last Unicorn and Thundercats, since they were both produced by Japanese animation teams (Ghibli), so they're technically "anime".

It's like listening only to Britney Spears, and then saying "I hate music" because of it.

Anime is a MEDIUM, like 'comic' or 'painting' - it is not content, it is a container. It is filled, often, with ****ty content, but it also has amazing content. Disregarding the amazing stuff because of the bad stuff, to me personally, my opinion ohmigawd, seems rather lame.

Edit: But yes, that clip is very LOL, no disagreement there.

Someone eat your sense of humour? I don't much like anime, but the thread title wasn't SUPERSERIALS.

Also, so what? I've seen quite a lot of anime. I haven't liked most of it. I'm not bothered about looking for something I might like, for the same reason I'm not going to listen to all of Britney Spears's albums just in case I miss out on a song I'd like. I have other stuff to do.

[Flangenimblick]

Sorry for the double-post.




Hmmm okay nice one.....

But seriously what if there are people that dont like anime as a whole and hate everything to do with it???



I had a friend like you. Hated everything and anything to do with anime based on a few crap shows he had seen. Then I sent him Gurren Lagann and he hasn't looked back. He even sends me new anime and watches shows like Azumanga Daioh etc.

Point is, there is a lot of crap out there, but there is bound to be something you like. Generalising is just silly.


Also, without Anime, how would we be able to make fun of the Japs? Well, of course there is other stuff, but anime memes are some of the funniest things out there!

[Dead!Raven]

Anime can be really awesome ( Death note), but on the flip side, it can be eye-gougingly terrible, But I suppose thats the same any any form of entertainment. More often then not, the dubbed versions of shows are worse that their un-dubbed counterparts.

[James Donaldson]

"BLESS YOU, THANKS!"

I've seen Orguss 2 on the long dead Scifi channel, so it wasn't such a shock -still funny even given the situation.

Though Orguss 2 was good IMO -there's so much worse anime out there.

[Cleric]

but anime memes are some of the funniest things out there!

And that, is where I lost you. Sure, there's some good anime, but the general culture of it turns me off. Also, what if it's the style of the presentation that turns you off.

Miktar, your example is flawed. Not watching anime because you don't like what you've seen is far more like not listening to R&B because you don't like what you've heard. It's a genre/style of film, not an entertainment medium all on it's own.

But yeah, Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion, and that Vampire series that I always forget the name of (Bloodhunter mebe?) were cool enough, but for every one of those, there's a ton of Tank Police-esque garbage. But I am always open to new anime, but only if it's recommended by my other anime averse friends. It would take a lot for a Naruto fan to convince me to watch a new anime.


EDIT: Also, allow me to point out that the vid is blocked at work, so I am unable to just reply "Lulz" for now.

[Miktar]

Someone eat your sense of humour? I don't much like anime, but the thread title wasn't SUPERSERIALS.

Also, so what? I've seen quite a lot of anime. I haven't liked most of it. I'm not bothered about looking for something I might like, for the same reason I'm not going to listen to all of Britney Spears's albums just in case I miss out on a song I'd like. I have other stuff to do.

Someone's uptight today. Nah, I did lol at the clip. I was just making a point about content vs container. You're free to hate what you want to hate for whatever reasons, never said you weren't. Never said you should go watch all anime either.

I'm sooooo sorry I didn't just reply with 'LOL!' and not contribute a single thought to the thread. I keep forgetting this is a calorie-free environment. :P


Miktar, your example is flawed. Not watching anime because you don't like what you've seen is far more like not listening to R&B because you don't like what you've heard. It's a genre/style of film, not an entertainment medium all on it's own.

I disagree. Anime is like sequential art (comics). It's a medium, not a genre/style. Read Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" for a good explanation of the difference between genre/style and a medium, it's applicable here.


It would take a lot for a Naruto fan to convince me to watch a new anime.

Just like it would take a lot for a heavy-metal fanatic to convince me to listen to the newest expletive-filled bad-music terrible-singing thrash-metal. But I'd still listen to other genres of music, because music is a medium, not genre/style.

Anime comes in every genre, every style, because it's a versatile medium. There is photorealistic anime, there is hyper-cartoon anime, there is serious drama anime (Grave of the Fireflies, for example), and there is irreverent anime (Dragon Half).

Just like comics come in all forms, from serious graphic novels (Watchmen) to sunday funnies (Garfield), it would be weird to ignore all comics, sequential art, because you didn't like Watchmen, or Garfield. Disliking a medium because of some content, just seems strange to me, that's all.

Because anime is a medium, it does contain genres and styles, like shonen, shojo, etcchi, etc. And those genres and styles have their tropes and memes, which is what most people latch on it. People like the shonen (for boys) anime of Naruto because of it's tropes, and thus, they follow other animes that have those same tropes, just like R&B has it's tropes, and people who like those tropes look for it in other R&B music, or they transition, whatever.

But anime isn't a singular thing, so regarding it as a singular style or genre would be quite incorrect.

[Cleric]

I disagree. Anime is like sequential art (comics). It's a medium, not a genre/style. Read Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" for a good explanation of the difference between genre/style and a medium, it's applicable here.

Just because he wrote it, doesn't make it true. But if you interpret it as a medium, not a style of a medium (in this case, film) then we can agree to disagree. But I will look out for that book, should be a good read, and I may come back to you hat in hand.



Just like it would take a lot for a heavy-metal fanatic to convince me to listen to the newest expletive-filled bad-music terrible-singing thrash-metal. But I'd still listen to other genres of music, because music is a medium, not genre/style.

Exactly, so I can love films, but dislike most anime just as you can love music and dislike metal.

[Miktar]

Anime is just a word for "animation", in Japan it's thought of as just animation, just like manga is the word for comics.

People confuse ethnic gesture with content. Because anime is generally Japanese in culture, people associate the content they hate with the look of Japanese animation, whenever they see the slightest hint of the Asian ethnic gesture, they make the connection between that and the content they've come to despise.

Animation is just animation, but anim? is Asian, so it may have asian ethnic considerations in body language and design, but it's still just a container, not content.

All ethnic gesture is not created equal. Just looking at a still picture of an animated character from Japan, won't tell you how much ethnic gesture is contained in the animation.

Comparing something like Full Metal Alchemist to Ghost in the Shell, FMA is very Japanese in it's humour, whereas Ghost in the Shell tries to be as "international" as possible, with as little Asian ethnic gesture as possible.

Calling all 'anime' a singular thing, would be like calling all 'games' a singular thing, and as we all know, Quake is not Command & Conquer, Outcast is not Cave Story, Flashback is not Mario Brothers.

A lot of anime hate is probably also just backlash against the anime surge of the last few decades, which is often tied to people thinking the stylization of the art demands a certain kind of characterization and plot. Content Vs Container. An expression of the idea "all blonds are dumb".

http://clip2net.com/clip/m6496/1271172320-clip-8kb.jpg http://clip2net.com/clip/m6496/1271172389-clip-12kb.jpg
http://clip2net.com/clip/m6496/1271172453-clip-19kb.jpg


Just because he wrote it, doesn't make it true.

No, just because he said it, doesn't make it true. On the other hand, he's put forth the most researched, thought-out, well-reasoned, fact-based argument and critique that anyone to date so far has managed to field. Compared to that, guys on the internet saying 'I don't like it because it's stupid', don't really make a persuasive counterpoint.

[Cleric]

No, just because he said it, doesn't make it true. On the other hand, he's put forth the most researched, thought-out, well-reasoned, fact-based argument and critique that anyone to date so far has managed to field. Compared to that, guys on the internet saying 'I don't like it because it's stupid', don't really make a persuasive counterpoint.

Which is why I said:
But I will look out for that book, should be a good read, and I may come back to you hat in hand.
I'm not closed the idea, and I get where you're coming from, but for the moment I still view anime as a "sub-medium" if you will, of film, my exposure to which has unimpressed me (hmmm... too many commas).

A great action sequence, usage of the style to tell a thought provoking story, well weaved arches of the narrative, these are things that I love regardless of whether it's anime or western cartoons, or films or comics or games or a kiddies pop-up book. It's not the medium (happy now?) that turns me off, it's the bulk of the content that I've been exposed to. There was some anime that some of my stranger friends raved about that involed a kid worshipping a toilet just because a girl he liked had used it recently. That is just plain retarded. And it's not the only example of that kind of humour in anime.

But I see what you're saying and it comes down to "don't miss out on something great due to generalisations". But from where I'm standing, it's kind of a diamond-in-the-rough situation.

[Sir PaniCore]

I agree with Miktar. There are lots of anime which I absolutely hate but that would not mean that every single Show is bad. As he said the classification of a show as an anime is simply a container or if you would a category in order to list the show, and in that container are dozens of sub-categories as you get lots of different genres within anime and sometimes even those can be broken down even more.

For example, There are 2 mecha shows which I love: Evangelion and Toppa tengen gurren Laggan. Both are classified as anime, there genre is that of a mecha yet both are completely different to each other.

Evangelion is more focused on serious issues as it focuses more on character development than the actual mechs as well as has a lot of religious sub-texts.

Gurren Laggan, However, is much more humourous focusing on the bigger picture of the hero saving the day and to try to entertain rather than enduce thought.

So to hate Something just because you have seen some shows That you do not enjoy, is like watching House of the dead and now saying you hate all horror movies.

[Kharrak]

Using this as a reason why you hate anime is like saying the cheesy dialog in Gears of War 2 is why one hates the 360 :P

Azi, you're such a troll ;)

[Miktar]

It's not the medium (happy now?) that turns me off, it's the bulk of the content that I've been exposed to.

Boom. That I can understand 100%, and have no issue with. You, sire, have convinced me of your reasoning behind why you have developed a dislike for the medium, and that I can respect. Issue with the content, is something that is fully in the realm of something that does not seem weird to me.

Tropes, ethnic gestures, cultural memes and general kiddie-fodder (Naruto, Bleach, DBZ, etc) are perfectly normal things to like or not like, however that goes.

Diamond in the rough situation, sure. But I'd apply that to everything right now: movies, music, games, books, comic books, cartoons: there is 90% ****, and 10% good. At the end of the day, it boils down to what you focus and fixate on. People that fixate on the bad, get what they deserve, and vice-versa.

[dammit]

Er, that really wasn't funny at all.

[dislekcia]

Why I think comics are ****. (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1009/1009_01.asp)

Am I doin it rite?

[ioiiooio]

To all the haters you really should watch some of Studio Ghibli's stuff. 'Howl's Moving Castle' and 'Princess Mononoke' are some of the best movies I've ever seen, and they feature voice talents like Billy Bob Thornton, and Christian Bale so no worries about bad dubbing n stuff.

I personally prefer movies with bad dubbing to sub-titles. With subs you miss out on all the atmosphere and camera work and what-not. Like it kinda defeats the objective. Leave the reading for books.

[James Donaldson]

So is this why Animax, South Africas leading anime channel, only shows Reality TV now?

[Bonezmann]

Everyone loves Mudkips, Mudkips = Anime. So everyone loves Anime! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKzqP4-0Z6M&feature=related)

Anyways, judging all anime from one line of a dubbed episode is kinda ignorant(If I have the term right). Like others said before me, Subbed > Dubbed. Or you can just learn the whole language. :p

[Graal]

Okay, I'll express my view. Why I think the majority of Anime sucks. I did, after all, enjoy the Dead Space movie.

Also:


Everyone loves Mudkips, Mudkips = Anime. So everyone loves Anime! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKzqP4-0Z6M&feature=related)

Anyways, judging all anime from one line of a dubbed episode is kinda ignorant(If I have the term right). Like others said before me, Subbed > Dubbed. Or you can just learn the whole language. :p

I honestly don't even know what a Mudkip is, but I gathered it was from pokemon. :p

[Chevron]

Sigh. I so need internet at home.

Just by the by the I've personally used black lagoon to change someone from 'anime is crap' to 'anime is awesome'.

Regarding sub titled vs dubbed though, I'd choose subtitled every time. Watching Tenjou Tenge dubbed on Animax after watching it subbed was a horrifying experience.

[wir]

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6195/12711822559453172723.jpg
Pic related.

Translation errors are always lulzy, which reminds me of Bad Translator! (http://www.conveythis.com/translation.php)

[KalMaverick]

Er, that really wasn't funny at all.

Here I thought I was the only one :/

Or maybe I'm just not getting it.

@dislekcia.................... W ..... T .... F ........ was that? I read the first few frames then decided stuff this.

[Domanskip]

So is this why Animax, South Africas leading anime channel, only shows Reality TV now?

I don't know about everyone else, but I never watched Animax purely because all of their anime was dubbed. I'm sorry but dubbing Anime for me is like drinking a Long Island Ice Tea without alcohol and I know this is true for many other people too.

Funnily enough, I watch a lot of Animax nowadays between Ninja Warrior and Kenny vs Spenny.

[Miktar]

I'm sorry but dubbing Anime for me is like drinking a Long Island Ice Tea without alcohol and I know this is true for many other people too.

http://clip2net.com/clip/m6496/1271199355-clip-38kb.jpg

I concur.

[Azraphael]

Funnily enough, I watch a lot of Animax nowadays between Ninja Warrior and Kenny vs Spenny.

Likewise, also Unbeatable Banzuke and Takeshe's Castle. Takeshe's Castle was produced purely for stoners.

[ioiiooio]

I don't know about everyone else, but I never watched Animax purely because all of their anime was dubbed. I'm sorry but dubbing Anime for me is like drinking a Long Island Ice Tea without alcohol and I know this is true for many other people too.

Funnily enough, I watch a lot of Animax nowadays between Ninja Warrior and Kenny vs Spenny.

Yeah? Well... well, I think movies with sub-titles are like Long Islands with no coke - it might get the job done, but it's bitter and loses it's appeal. ;)

That said though, it's not like I won't watch a movie with subs, just that I prefer dubbing - especially when it's animated and you're missing out on all the great artistry; and then the problem is ten-fold if it's got lots of action scenes. Howl's Moving Castle and Princess Mononoke were actually quite unsettling because I'm so used to the usual dubbing that certain characters "sounded weird".

[Dead!Raven]

Takeshe's Castle. Takeshe's Castle was produced purely for stoners.

First time I saw that show was when I was... Quite high... Best. Thing On. Television. EVAR.

[MrDeVil_909]

I hate Anime, except for Spirited Away which is one of the best movies I have ever seen. The recent rise in popularity has been driven by a rise in absolute dreck, that's why the whole genre is tainted for many people.

Was checking out some other Studio Ghibli stuff at Musica, that ****'s expensive.

[Miktar]

Anime has always suffered from cultural ghettoisation, no more so today than ten years ago. The only difference is, people in South Africa are now more exposed to anime as a whole, instead of select imports and fansubs, which were cherry-picked due to the time/cost/effort it took to get them.

[MarryO+LewyG]

ROFL , arousing...

In my most humble opinion:

94.8% of all Anime(content wise) ever produced is ****e.

Ghost in the shell, all of em + Akira are enormously overrated.

Ninja scroll, Afro Samurai, maybe Spriggin fantastically underrated.

If it’s not the more westernised(commercial) stuff that has a budget and thrives on the art itself, you can blow it out your ear. I’ve enjoyed VERY few “truly” Japanese pieces.

Aside from the slow, boring, poorly explained, and often bizarre plots\characters of the genre, I’d say one of the greatest reasons I hate anime is because of the people who follow it.

“True” anime fans I’ve run into consist of the most horrible and socially defunct nerds in existence. So much so that my idea of hell consist of a room of anime nerds constantly talking about the sin of watching dubbed torrents while playing final fantasy, listening to tool and smoking bad weed.

Yeah sure everything (especially gaming) has that guy. But when it comes to anime, it’s like everyone is that guy.

I tend to find the more obese, emo, pale the individual is, the greater the chance of him liking bad anime.

Bad anime being, the young kids in robots, pokemon, dragonball Z, Gantz = immature/pseudo intellectual tripe. I’ve made an effort to watch at least an episode of most anime available and 9/10 I’d rather be watching paint dry.


TL;DR, Anime nerds are as pitiful competitive gaming nerds, good anime is as rare rocking horse ****\hens teeth and I don’t like most anime.

[KalMaverick]

Haha what a funny read.

I guess people can say that about gamers in general too.

Bad anime being, the young kids in robots, pokemon, dragonball Z, Gantz = immature/pseudo intellectual tripe. I?ve made an effort to watch at least an episode of most anime available and 9/10 I?d rather be watching paint dry.

LEAVE DRAGONBALL Z ALONE!!!! T_T

/fanboi rant

Anyway I must say saying "most anime r stooopid" is kinda silly. It's like saying every girl I date is a bitch, either you are very unlucky or you actually just have bad taste...

[NecroWolf]

I really like anime in general. And I think that has something to do with my love of all things japanese... except Subaru

As for the whole subbed vs dubbed thing, it depends on the show. For example, dbz, black lagoon, death note and the good shows on animax are shows I can't really watch subbed but bleach, naruto and tengen toppa gurren laggan are shows that I can't really watch dubbed. Basically, if the show sounds better in english compared to japanese then dubbed > subbed.

PS: typing on my PS3 is really messed up.

[MrDeVil_909]

Anyway I must say saying "most anime r stooopid" is kinda silly. It's like saying every girl I date is a bitch, either you are very unlucky or you actually just have bad taste...

Actually no, it's like saying most books are ****, or most TV, or most movies. It's true.

All media are a wasteland of mediocrity and feces, except for the few items that make it worth your time.

For every Lost there is a thousand Grey's Anatomys or 7de laans. (??? Plural fail)
For every D9 there is a thousand Blade 2s.
For every Lord of the Rings there is a thousand Mills n Boone books.

Anime fans, as a whole, seem to lack discernment, their attitude is more like, 'Well, I like books so I'm going to read the whole library from one end to the other.'

[Chevron]

For every Lost there is a thousand Grey's Anatomys or 7de laans. (??? Plural fail)


That's subjective though. I'd have phrased it so:

For every Grey's Anatomy there is a thousand Losts or 7de laans.

[KalMaverick]

Actually no, it's like saying most books are ****, or most TV, or most movies. It's true.

All media are a wasteland of mediocrity and feces, except for the few items that make it worth your time.

For every Lost there is a thousand Grey's Anatomys or 7de laans. (??? Plural fail)
For every D9 there is a thousand Blade 2s.
For every Lord of the Rings there is a thousand Mills n Boone books.

Anime fans, as a whole, seem to lack discernment, their attitude is more like, 'Well, I like books so I'm going to read the whole library from one end to the other.'

Ok I must admit that is true most of anything is ****, but then what's the point of stating it? We all know it's ****. That's why you choose what to watch and what not to watch.

As for the generalisation it might be true I don't know, but as for me and a few anime fan friends, none of us just go "ooh anime must watch" we all look it up and think would this actually be worth watching or not? Obviously you get a few lemons but pick your shows properly and you'll be watching nice anime.

Pick your shows like **** (ah its got boobies) and you'll end up watching ****. Watching something just for the sake of watching it is retarded. Same with not watching something just because most of it is **** is retarded too.

EDIT: Atleast we can mostly agree on 7de laan being complete crap.

[Kharrak]

I hate Anime, except for Spirited Away which is one of the best movies I have ever seen. The recent rise in popularity has been driven by a rise in absolute dreck, that's why the whole genre is tainted for many people.

Out of interest, have you seen any other Studio Ghibli works?

Though I enjoyed Spirited Away, there are many other works that I rather prefer.

Also, I heavily suggest Satoshi Kon's works (not just to you, to people in general). Movies like Millennium Actress, Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Paprika, and the Paranoia Agent TV Series really exist in their own paradigm - it's true all-age entertainment, but really, really mature stuff. (as in, grown up, not in terms of violent content)

[ZoRPA]

HAHAHA! What a funny clip!


LEAVE DRAGONBALL Z ALONE!!!! T_T


I loved Dragonball Z back in the day, sure its not the best but I find it very humorous.


Originally Posted by Azraphael
Takeshe's Castle. Takeshe's Castle was produced purely for stoners.


First time I saw that show was when I was... Quite high... Best. Thing On. Television. EVAR.

Agreed, this is one of the funniest shows I've seen. Along with Ninja Warrior, pure awesomeness!

[ioiiooio]

Out of interest, have you seen any other Studio Ghibli works?

Though I enjoyed Spirited Away, there are many other works that I rather prefer.

Also, I heavily suggest Satoshi Kon's works (not just to you, to people in general). Movies like Millennium Actress, Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Paprika, and the Paranoia Agent TV Series really exist in their own paradigm - it's true all-age entertainment, but really, really mature stuff. (as in, grown up, not in terms of violent content)

Perfect Blue was a brilliant mind-****. I was surprised that I enjoyed it, except the rape scene was a bit disturbing. Like you say; it's a very adult theme. And no, for others who haven't seen it, the rape scene had a reason, it wasn't one of those sick Animes which revolve around demons raping people... I forget what you call them.

The movies I mentioned are Studio Ghibli, unless I'm somehow mistaken. The thing is, as far as I know, I think a lot of the puritans didn't like Howl's Moving Castle or Princess Mononoke because they were obviously very western (in howls moving castle you would even notice it's set in a western environment), but to hell with them anyways, if you take them out of the context of previous Ghibli films I think they are fantastic movies. I just love how creative they are, and I love that the characters live in a world of magic. I love how, just when you think they're about to bring on a western cliche... they don't. A bit hard to explain, but anyhoo. My only real problem with their films is they tend to have lame endings; but it's obviously more about the journey and the characters. My Neighbour Totoro was also pretty good, but definitely more of a kids movie, and again the ending was just meh. It may sound lame, but the movies really are best described as they are on the cover, you know, with words like "Speelbinding/Enchanting/Mesmerising" etc..

You got any others you could recommend?

[Kharrak]

My Neighbor Totoro is the god of all feelgood movies, no real reason past that :P

Personally, my favorite Ghibli movie is their first - Nausicaa: Valley of the Wind


Outside of that, Grave of the Fireflied is absolutely amazing, but probably (and notoriously) the most depressing anime/movie/media/ellement in this dimension ever to exist. You really, really need to watch it, just don't expect to come out of it feeling positive about life :P

[MrDeVil_909]

That's subjective though. I'd have phrased it so:

For every Grey's Anatomy there is a thousand Losts or 7de laans.

Of course, it's extremely subjective. And it's nice that you're in touch with your feminine side. xox


Ok I must admit that is true most of anything is ****, but then what's the point of stating it? We all know it's ****. That's why you choose what to watch and what not to watch.

As for the generalisation it might be true I don't know, but as for me and a few anime fan friends, none of us just go "ooh anime must watch" we all look it up and think would this actually be worth watching or not? Obviously you get a few lemons but pick your shows properly and you'll be watching nice anime.

Pick your shows like **** (ah its got boobies) and you'll end up watching ****. Watching something just for the sake of watching it is retarded. Same with not watching something just because most of it is **** is retarded too.

EDIT: Atleast we can mostly agree on 7de laan being complete crap.

I think we're actually agreeing but talking past each other. My limited experience with Anime fans was going out to 330 with friends and having to be home in time for DragonBallz or whatever else was on at the time, and internet forums where people with anime avatars tend to be the lamest and most boring.

And I'm generally ...dubious... about anyone who defines themselves as a genre fan, even in books fantasy and sci-fi fans tend to get tiresome.


Out of interest, have you seen any other Studio Ghibli works?

No :(

[James Donaldson]

Ghost in the shell, all of em + Akira are enormously overrated.

Ninja scroll, Afro Samurai, maybe Spriggin fantastically underrated.

^ Please don't tell me you like the bottem 3, over the top 3, because they're the ones with sex, gore and nudity -_-

[Bonezmann]

HAHAHA! What a funny clip!



I loved Dragonball Z back in the day, sure its not the best but I find it very humorous.



Agreed, this is one of the funniest shows I've seen. Along with Ninja Warrior, pure awesomeness!

Humorous that you laugh everytime Goku screams at the top of his lungs just so he can "power up"? Looking back, DBZ was utterly retarted. Just my opinion.

I must agree that Takeshi's castle is quite funny sometimes, they add new games every once in a while and there are a lot of them in each episode. Ninja warrior and Unbeatable Banzuke is utter crap where they show a gazillion contestants go at one or two, maybe three, obstacles in one episode. Can anyone spell boring?

By the by, I think only one or two contestants actually won Takeshi's castle, and they win nothing? O.O

[FreddyAintDead]

It's entirely possible to not be attracted to an entire medium, however varied it's content. Usually it's a result of how one perceives that medium as a whole. Not to be confused with jumping to conclusions after seeing one or ten bad anime shows. It boils down to what makes that medium it's own.

Anime is typically animated and of Japanese influence. I enjoy animated films and shows but rarely does this include anime.

Why? Anime has a distinct pacing to it's presentation and storytelling. It's style is easily identifiable across all it's genres which are rooted in Japanese culture.

I can watch anime and think, that was a cool story and still dislike what I saw.

There are people who don't like the medium of books and other literature. It doesn't mean they can't read or are unable to appreciate a well told story, they're just not inclined to prefer experiencing a story through that medium.

I've enjoyed various different anime shows and films I've just never enjoyed the fact that they were anime.

[MarryO+LewyG]

^ Please don't tell me you like the bottem 3, over the top 3, because they're the ones with sex, gore and nudity -_-

No, Akira, while well animated (during the 80s), has an obscenely stupid and unoriginal plot – the ending is enough make me want to scratch my eyeballs out. Ghost in the shell suffers from some of the hugest plot holes in recorded history and by the second movie they had just lost the plot. It really prances around trying to introduce philosophical concepts at every turn in the poorest dialogue ever conceived.

I wouldn’t deny that the use of those factors probably did have an impact on why I enjoyed them, but I’d never watch something just for the sake of those factors. I really enjoyed spirited away btw.

It not a question about of sex violence and nudity but rather mature coherent story telling.

Please explain to me how a person in their 20’s watches sailor moon, ah my goddess, Elfin Lied (SP), Pok?mon, DBZ or whatever, can justify their enjoyment of it other than appreciation for the actual animation.

The story sucks, the pacing is slow, it mainly appeals to juvenile interests, it’s repetitive and just crap all round really.

If you’re watching anime for preteen girls in skimpy outfits you should get outside more. If you’re fapping to hentai everyday, you should start registering yourself as a sex offender.

[Azimuth]

It not a question about of sex violence and nudity but rather mature coherent story telling.

That's my real problem with anime. Even the stuff I've seen that I didn't hate was somewhat incoherent. To me, almost all the anime I've seen is a sort of series of trippy colours, fatuous dialogue, immensely annoying characters, and absolutely no sense of pacing or coherent narrative whatsoever. By ten minutes in, I just have no ****ing idea what's going on anymore, and I hate everyone on the screen.

[KilR8]

OMG You have blown my mind.......how can someone descibe something so truthfully as you have. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF ANIME. I bow down to you.......THANK YOU.


That's my real problem with anime. Even the stuff I've seen that I didn't hate was somewhat incoherent. To me, almost all the anime I've seen is a sort of series of trippy colours, fatuous dialogue, immensely annoying characters, and absolutely no sense of pacing or coherent narrative whatsoever. By ten minutes in, I just have no ****ing idea what's going on anymore, and I hate everyone on the screen.

Again, THANK YOU.

[Kharrak]

That's my real problem with anime. Even the stuff I've seen that I didn't hate was somewhat incoherent. To me, almost all the anime I've seen is a sort of series of trippy colours, fatuous dialogue, immensely annoying characters, and absolutely no sense of pacing or coherent narrative whatsoever. By ten minutes in, I just have no ****ing idea what's going on anymore, and I hate everyone on the screen.

Well, let's get everyone on the same level then - I humbly suggest you try the media that I suggested in this thread. If you dislike those, then your dislike is fair in my eyes, you would at least have tasted the fruits before declaring them sour.

Some of the mature/intelligent anime doesn't have traditional coherency, and it's not rare for some of them to delve into experimentive story telling. That said, I'm not defending the hordes of series that DO have ****ty, boring, predictable, and generally bad story telling :P

On a side note, one must remember that, more and more, the anime industry is becoming a business. It's less about creating original work, and the vast majority is geared towards recreating products that will sell. This is why we see so many animes that are similar (following the successful formula) and have such ****ty animation (low budget production). Unfortunately, the masses enjoy the juvenile stuff where they don't need to think, so that's what we see the most.

However, that does not mean that there are no more diamonds hidden in the rough.

[MarryO+LewyG]

Some of the mature/intelligent anime doesn't have traditional coherency

I agree with that

But could you (I’m not trollin you) give me five examples (suggestions) of what you’d consider enjoyable and mature anime.


Also, I heavily suggest Satoshi Kon's works (not just to you, to people in general). Movies like Millennium Actress, Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Paprika, and the Paranoia Agent TV Series really exist in their own paradigm - it's true all-age entertainment, but really, really mature stuff. (as in, grown up, not in terms of violent content)

Style over substance. Paprika sucks massive balls IMO

I haven’t seen perfect blue or Tokyo god fathers though

[Miktar]

Style over substance. Paprika sucks massive balls IMO

I would disagree on style over substance for Paranoia Agent and Paprika. There is plenty of subtext and substance in both, but it's easy to get distracted by the surface gloss and assume that's all there is. It took me multiple viewings of both to really appreciate either.

As for mature and enjoyable: Grave of the Fireflies is one that springs to mind immediately.

But, at the end of the day, opinion is opinion. Any examples offered up can easily be disregarded to further one's agenda, so the discussion is moot, wouldn't you agree?

[Kharrak]

Paprika sucks massive balls IMO

Well, I do agree that it was his weakest work, though I still enjoyed it.

As for five examples? Of what I personally view as adult? Hmmm...

Well, Satoshi Kon's other works that I mentioned, such as Millenium Actress and Paranoia Agent jump to mind initially. There's also the Monster TV Series. Mushishi also struck me as very mature - one of my favorites. It was very calm, laid back, yet so interesting and immersive. Then there's stuff like Grave of the Fireflies as well.

Then again, my view is also different somewhat - I see My Neighbor Totoro as mature as well. That's because I don't see mature as in "mature content", or "mature themes", but as something that's... well... grown up. My Neighbor Totoro revolves around the children, true, but it's got a father that's... well... amazing. When the father chose to "play along" with the kids regarding what they saw, suggesting almost that he knew that the creatures were there - instead of going "Oh yes that's nice/Oh you're just seeing things", that really amazed me so much. It was a much more... grown up approach, which ironically invokes more childlike views :P

On the other end of the spectrum, you have something like Gurren Lagaan - which I actually couldn't stand, precisely because I found it so juvenile. It was fun initially, but the encouragement of juvenile delinquent "rebel" attitudes really annoyed me. This also bleeds into many other shounen manga such as DBZ, and the infamous Bleach. Naruto is interesting, since I personally think that the creator has intentionally begun weaving some more adult/grown up concepts into it since it's more shallow beginnings. Hunter X Hunter is still, for me, the most "seinen shounen", apart from its more.... outlandish designs.

I actually agree with you on many of the points you've made - Akira is only impressive from an animation stand point, the Ghost in the Shell Movies have story telling issues, and so on. Those, though they may have mature themes, don't necessarily strike me as "grown up".

(That said, I DO think that the Akira manga is absolutely amazing - the movie struck me as quite pathetic after I read it)

Actually, that leads me to another mental step - a large reason behind my move to manga from anime, was that I found it was easier to find more mature stories, than it was in anime, since the latter was mass producing the popular junk-food formula.

[Miktar]

That's my real problem with anime.

As I mentioned in my earlier posts that seem to be easily ignored - there is always the consideration of ethnic gesture and cultural ghettoisation coming into play. Of course, personal bias, taste and opinion really precedes any and all enjoyment of anything, which is fine and dandy.

I'm pretty sure at the end of the day, most American and European cartoons are seen by the East in the same way you see Anime from those parts. Have you watched any French animated feature-films lately? The cultural difference there is so palpable, it's easy to quickly form a like or dislike for it. Personally, I can't stand French animated features, but I'm still cognizant of why I dislike the specifics of that culture's storytelling methods, construction, characters and such.

At the end of the day, if something 'isn't for you', nobody is going to convince you otherwise, nor will screaming from the rooftops about how much you hate something, going to convince anyone else to hate it too. Sure, you'll get the 'omg ur so rite' replies, and the people who disagree vehemently without explanation and then a looong thread of people talking about how much they Love X or Hate Y...

Reminds me of music threads - active and bustling, but about as much nutritional value as cardboard. Which I guess is a kind of fibre, so it might make you regular....

I doubt half the people here asking 'well, TELL me what's good then since I think everything is ****' are ACTUALLY going to bother looking at any of the suggestions made - this isn't a thread about curiosity or discovery, this is a bitchfest thread where people can take their sides and try to 'war' with each other to convince the other side they're wrong. Sure, my posts might be seen in the same light, and that's understandable, but to be honest I was just throwing in some ideas that I felt were absent from the discussion.

I'm sure MarryO already considers me one of those 'basement-dwelling pimply-faced anime-nerds' (though where does the Tool reference come from, I wonder - possibly just thrown in since he's got a pet-peeve against Tool?), but to be honest, I really don't give a **** if anyone likes anime or doesn't like anime for whatever reason. To me, media is media, and I love it all equally, except Deadliest Catch, Iron Chef and American Idols, there I draw the line. But that's beside the point.

Let's at least just be realistic and honest with each other here. Do we REALLY need a bunch of posts where people try to 'catch each other out' by asking 'So tell me what's good?' and then people suggest, and then it's insta-reply of 'oh, those are **** too, see, I wuz right' and that whole old ****ty story eternally retold on the internets.

Or alternately, if this type of discussion HAS to happen, can it at least be elevated to a point beyond just people throwing around their favorites and opinions like anyone actually gives a ****? Then again, this may be the wrong thread for that, as the basic premise of the thread was established with the OT.

Side note: On the topic of movies made from long-running manga, like Akira and Ghost in the Shell - it's worth remembering that like movies made from books in the West - LOTR, Jurassic Park, bladeblah: there is always a lot that goes wrong in these translations from book/comic to movie. The West isn't the only place where it happens, so it's worth keeping that in mind when considering an anime feature film made from a book or movie - how much was changed, altered, condensed and cut for the film, whereas the original book was, in all regards, a much more cohesive, better-told story?

[Azimuth]

As I mentioned in my earlier posts that seem to be easily ignored - there is always the consideration of ethnic gesture and cultural ghettoisation coming into play. Of course, personal bias, taste and opinion really precedes any and all enjoyment of anything, which is fine and dandy.


Come on, Miktar, I don't ignore your posts. Stop getting up in your bitch just because I'm (and anyone else is) not interested. As I said before, I've heard enough Britney Spears to know I'm not bothered about listening to any more. Same applies to anime. It's just not my thing. (And yes, I read the parts of your post about this.)

Wasn't it you who stated flat out some time ago that you hate romantic comedies? ;)

[Miktar]

I wasn't referring to you ignoring them, but the thread participants in general. I made my post, and look at how quickly the thread just continued on with people shouting out their personal favorites and hates in anime, completely disregarding the point the thread had gotten to.

Stop acting childish, please. The antagonistic, abrasive comments is long in the tooth, and all it does is perpetuate the barbed statements thrown around. It's that kind of stuff that has caused the kind of thing you complain about from Dislekcia. "Stop getting up in your bitch"? Really? Was that really called for? Did I at ANY point in this thread take that tact and tone with you, where you didn't take it with me first? No, I didn't. If you want to complain about people being passive/aggressive towards you, fine, but then stop doing it. If you want to tell me after the fact that 'it was a joke/mocking tone/excuse' here, sure, but then anyone can claim the same gambit when you accuse them of being aggressive or abrasive, and would you accept their claim? History shows, most of the time, no. Especially not if it's anyone you have a bone to pick, or if there's some silly internet feud going on between you and them at the time. I realize that this entire paragraph may be internalized by whoever reads it as an angry diatribe. Perhaps if I were a more patient writer, or a better writer, I could get my 'voice' across more clearly, in which case you would hear that I'm not being angry or ranty or whatever it is you're thinking, but rather I'm trying for a conciliatory tone, because I want to move past this. Having to stop and write out these long paragraphs explaining stuff that should be self-evident. (And this is the perfect place for what might be perceived as a pious smiley that's downright passive-aggresive if one decides to see it that way). Here it comes. ;)

ANYWAY.

I know you're not interested, yet you sure do want to ensure everyone knows just how much you don't like something you're not interested in, which is bizarre if you ask me...

To be honest, what I was hoping for was for you to share your thoughts perhaps, or just talk. Not everything has to be one-upmanship, not everything has to be either for lulz or for trollz. Sure, you may not think discussing anime is as interesting as, say, politics or how awesome Gears of War 3 is, I get that, but surely there must be some discussion on the topic you could have? Otherwise, why are you even here in this thread? If not, that's fine I guess. I did say in my previous post, nothing said here is going to convince anyone to like something they've already decided they hate.

I'm not here to try and convince you to like or be interested in anime. Let's just get that clear. I'm just talking. Something I think, and I'll go out on a limb here, is severely lacking on these forums because everyone is too busy either agreeing with the people they perceive to be in power, or too busy trolling/worshipping their favorite topics to troll/worship.

My comments on romantic comedies are irrelevant in this matter, because I said before, anime is a medium, not a genre. If it were a genre, then what you are trying to imply may be relevant. If I had said that I hate 'movies' because of my distaste for how romantic comedies and situational comedies are shallow, <insert whatever Azimuth said about why she hates anime here>, etc, then sure - but then I'd expect my comments to come under the same scrutiny as what I'm trying to highlight in yours...

Look, you don't owe me ****, and I know I'm asking too much when I expect people to consider separating content from container or to at least meet me half way on a topic, if only to discuss it...

This isn't about who's right, who's wrong, who's better, who's an uncultured plebian, and all that type of black and white polarity that seems inescapable in this community lately.

But to get back on point: it's just a certain kind of behaviour that I don't understand. It's not that I condemn it or think badly of it, I just don't understand it. If you are not interested in anime, or dislike it, cool. But why draw attention to your dislike of it? Why stand atop a soap box and tell people what you dislike, when nobody even asked you to begin with? I don't like sports, but I don't make threads 'this is why I hate sports'. If it comes up in conversation and I think there is a point to be made where I can use my personal likes and dislikes as examples, then that seems appropriate, but the whole 'omg anime so lame' and 'omg band X so lame' and 'omg X so X and Y' type attitude (that is prevalent around these parts) is something I just don't get. Am I being a hypocrite, because I've done the same type of thing at some point? Probably. Perhaps there is a context here I'm missing, and not applying to what you're saying about anime, as I did to my own unsolicited rant about a topic. I'm willing to admit that. Then I don't get why I do it either.

I bring it up, and note thoughts I have on the topic, because I'm expecting to learn something.

Then again, as someone pointed out to me earlier, perhaps I'm really barking up the wrong tree, trying to have an actual discussion about a topic, in what is really just a troll/lul thread. But if I made a 'let's discuss the merits of anime!' thread, it'd get ignored, or swamped up with Naruto and Bleach fanboys. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

tl:dr; I'm gonna take a break from the forums for a while. It's clear I need to drop some baggage and start over fresh.

[MarryO+LewyG]

are ACTUALLY going to bother looking at any of the suggestions made - this isn't a thread about curiosity or discovery, this is a bitchfest thread where people can take their sides and try to 'war' with each other to convince the other side they're wrong.

While I’ll agree its not civil conversation, I’m definitely paying attention to your posts and others. I will make a concerted effort to watch what Kharrak has suggested. I never said I said I hate all anime; I was trying to explain how I personally find it hard to find anime that I really enjoy (and why).


Grave of the Fireflies, My Neighbor Totoro, Gurren Lagaan


I’ve never heard anything about these and just from a Google I’m interested.


I'm sure MarryO already considers me one of those 'basement-dwelling pimply-faced anime-nerds' (though where does the Tool reference come from, I wonder - possibly just thrown in since he's got a pet-peeve against Tool?),

No but you act like one at times.

I feel it’s like you’re looking for confirmation or acknowledgement with your posts these days. I enjoy reading your stuff, so stop whining. ****ing forum baggage? Wtf? You want a cranberry Juice?*

I have nothing against tool. I really enjoy their music, but I find myself loathing “true” tool fans. They truly suck.

Remember civilised conversation is boring and gets far too much done. If there were no drama moments on forums, witty posts and the good ol RAAAGE, I would have been done with them a long time ago.

Azimuth’s” abrasion” is awesome. The internet isn’t all serious business. Sometimes I get the idea you’re a little too invested in the discussion (not a bad thing) and when a semi serious conversation takes a turn for the lulz you get a little peeved. I get it, but maybe you should just let it slide? Or stop rolling your eyes and make with the lulz.

*Period joke.

[Azimuth]

Stop acting childish, please. The antagonistic, abrasive comments is long in the tooth, and all it does is perpetuate the barbed statements thrown around. It's that kind of stuff that has caused the kind of thing you complain about from Dislekcia. "Stop getting up in your bitch"? Really? Was that really called for? Did I at ANY point in this thread take that tact and tone with you, where you didn't take it with me first?

To be honest, Miktar, I stopped reading here. You've had a pretty horrible attitude towards me for a while now, and I guess I can see why. You're obviously convinced I'm antagonising you, and everything you read of mine is moving through that filter. I can only tell you that you're very much mistaken, but I suppose that's still your prerogative to work out.

[FreddyAintDead]

Miktar, typically you're posting entire walls of text that take quite a while to absorb. I've read through your posts and agree, but most forumites aren't going to add water to a discussion if they see it reach a certain depth.

On the topic of French animated films, I actually think that's a very good example. The most recent feature length French animated film I've seen was Bellville Rendezvous (also The Triplets of Bellville) which I thought was brilliant. I can still understand how it's appeal can be very specific to it's desired audience. My initial point was similar, as a what makes anime a medium is what can be used to decide whether or not someone likes that medium as a whole, not just it's content. I like plenty of anime, but it's typical design and pres- SQUIRREL! -entation is not how prefer to experience a story.

It's an interesting topic to discuss, I think, but you and Azimuth with your fanny spankings are killing the buzz.

[Cleric]

From Yahtzee
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/7535-Extra-Punctuation-Stealth

So yes, I quite like stealth. Although, judging by my reaction to Splinter Cell, apparently not all stealth. It's like what I say when people ask me if I enjoy anime: That's a medium, not a genre. It's an animation style. Ask me about specific examples. On second thought, don't. You're very fat and unattractive and you smell like old milk.
Just reminded me of this thread is all.

[KaosLord]

Hate is such a strong word.

[Bke]

http://www.evasource.net/a-animelife.shtml

Been meaning to post this link here for a while. Just a little fun for a fun thread.

[Mr_krinkle]

I think anime is over rated,but that is my opinion.

[Chevron]

I think anime is over rated,but that is my opinion.

I see the thread went way over your head.

[Mr_krinkle]

I really should read the whole thread before posting>.>
Sorry just ignore my post lol:p

[Squirly]

I like some anime and anybody who disagrees is dumb.

Some anime is dumb and anybody who agrees, I like.


There, all sorted.