When someone close wants to commit suicide

[spjt07]

Hi Everyone

I have a problem. My sister has been trying to commit suicide over the past couple years by trying to overdose herself with medicine. Over the past couple weeks it has been getting steadily worse. She has tried about 4 times in the past month.

Her reasons that she is trying to do it are because she says nobody is listening to here when she says she can't cope with her studies. She is 29 and doing her third year in her Nursing degree. Her grades have been fine, mainly in the 60% mark and even a few distinctions. However there have been a few times where she has failed. Not terrible marks but in her eyes nothing could have been worse.

She is a perfectionist so when she fails it sets her back emotionaly a great deal.

Her boyfriend who lives in the USA recently broke up with her so that also didnt help the situation at all.

She is seeing a counsillor. However all she wants to do is give up. Everyone knows she wants to finish her Nursing degree so that she can use it to travel to countries where nurses are urgently needed (Far East and some European countries). But now that she is failing her midwifery due to not finishing her assignments she will end up having to redo the whole year over again. She obviously doesn't take that very well.

So my question is, what do you do. Tough love or soft love? What do you say and how do you help her deal with it?

Thanks for any good advice and help.

[willbeonekenobi]

Hi Everyone

I have a problem. My sister has been trying to commit suicide over the past couple years by trying to overdose herself with medicine. Over the past couple weeks it has been getting steadily worse. She has tried about 4 times in the past month.

Her reasons that she is trying to do it are because she says nobody is listening to here when she says she can't cope with her studies. She is 29 and doing her third year in her Nursing degree. Her grades have been fine, mainly in the 60% mark and even a few distinctions. However there have been a few times where she has failed. Not terrible marks but in her eyes nothing could have been worse.

She is a perfectionist so when she fails it sets her back emotionaly a great deal.

Her boyfriend who lives in the USA recently broke up with her so that also didnt help the situation at all.

She is seeing a counsillor. However all she wants to do is give up. Everyone knows she wants to finish her Nursing degree so that she can use it to travel to countries where nurses are urgently needed (Far East and some European countries). But now that she is failing her midwifery due to not finishing her assignments she will end up having to redo the whole year over again. She obviously doesn't take that very well.

So my question is, what do you do. Tough love or soft love? What do you say and how do you help her deal with it?

Thanks for any good advice and help.

Well it obviously sounds as if she is going through a very tough period in her life. I'm no psychologist but it could have to do something psychologically wrong with her. The combination of her boyfriend breaking up and some poor marks obviously does not bode well for her. If I were for you I would get her to see a psychologist so that maybe you can better understand what she is going through as she may not tell you. She may say that she is 'fine' but in reality she is not. I would also encourage her NOT TO GIVE UP. Giving up is for losers and by the sounds of it she is not a loser.

[Azimuth]

Well, if she says nobody is listening to her when she says she's not coping with her studies, has anyone actually tried listening?

[Takiro]

So my question is, what do you do. Tough love or soft love? What do you say and how do you help her deal with it?



Dude, The world is gonna dish out plenty of tough love. Don't be a **** in a bad situation (even if it is for a good reason)

[FEN1X]

What is the reason for her failing her studies?

[onona]

At the risk of sounding horribly callous, if she keeps taking household medication (which is pretty commonly known to be an ineffective method of suicide) and telling people why she wants to end it all, I'd say she's not really serious about it and is looking for attention. If she's tried four times this month without succeeding, it's because she's not actually trying.

Take it or leave it, but that's the impression I get from your post. I'm not saying she's not depressed, but I am saying she's probably not that serious about taking her life.

[wisp]

At the risk of sounding horribly callous, if she keeps taking household medication (which is pretty commonly known to be an ineffective method of suicide) and telling people why she wants to end it all, I'd say she's not really serious about it and is looking for attention. If she's tried four times this month without succeeding, it's because she's not actually trying.

Take it or leave it, but that's the impression I get from your post. I'm not saying she's not depressed, but I am saying she's probably not that serious about taking her life.

Toatlly agree with Onona on this one , these attempts are cries for help maybe a couseller is not the answer but checking in to a mental health facility for a short while may help where she can be monitored 24/7.

This must be hard on you and your family so strongs for you guys

[vii]

Guys, While this is probably a cry for attention, it does need to addressed. I've known a few people who attempted suicide and they all tried one of these incredibly ineffective methods. They see that doing something like this gets attention and thus think it'll get them some.

I'd recommend just being there for her and talking. People underestimate the value of just being talked to by a friend or family member in a nonjudgmental way. Just be normal, but be there for her. Also keep an eye on her, pills rarely work, but they could work...

Suicide attempts are quite serious, so maybe she should take a while off from her studies seeing as nurses work with pills, she probably shouldn't be around them too much :P

If she feels down about her marks, send her here so she can take a look at mine, She'll instantly feel better about hers :D

EDIT: Oh and something I've come across a lot with people depressed from failing a subject or two at university, just tell them it's a tiny year extra they'll be studying, and this year is insignificant in the big picture. She's young and an extra year of university isn't going to change anything really.

[dammit]

You say she's seeing a counsellor. I would strongly suggest you take her to see a psychologist or a psychiatrist. A counsellor is someone who only has their honours in psychology whereas a psychologist has their masters and two years of internship plus board exams. Essentially, they're armed with more training. Also, they may suggest that she be treated as an inpatient if she is a high risk to herself.

@onona: sometimes people feel that the only way they'll get help is if they do something dramatic. she's obviously not getting what she needs (perhaps support from her family?) for her to act out this way. The fact that her method of choice isn't effective doesn't mean her problems are not severe. very few suicide attempts are because the person wants to actually -die-. What they want the most is to end their current suffering.

[sywlyn]

My best mates sister had the exact same problem. It was really bad. She was very similar to your sister (based on your summary), in every way except she was 19/20.

She recieved medication which really helped, but unfortuanitly she would still go through dips every now and then, scaring the crap out of everyone who loved her. Ultimately one day, her mom also broke down (emotionally she couldnt cope anymore) and told her: "If you want to kill yourself, go ahead, im not going to hide meds anymore, im not going to lock away kitchenware anymore, if being dead is going to make you happy, then please, do it and get it over with". Needless to say it was rather intense, however, for some bizzarre reason she hasnt tried anything funny in the last 2 years?

Life is hard, it really is, and I know that she got addicted to having a easy escape from it. Ultimately she realised that everyone has ups and downs, its natural. Gyming helps a lot, its something that really has a positive impact (this is what she said) and actually taking your meds when you should. She also realised that its not just happening to her, but also everyone around her, which also made her see the bigger picture.

I suffered from Depression, the best and only thing to do is listen to the advice your given, it works. And yes, realising life isnt all good, but bad too, and that even the bad has a place in it.

Note: I agree with Dammit on that one. There are some good Psychologists and psychiatrists in the pretoria waterkloof area.

[Cyberninja]

You say she's seeing a counsellor. I would strongly suggest you take her to see a psychologist or a psychiatrist. A counsellor is someone who only has their honours in psychology whereas a psychologist has their masters and two years of internship plus board exams. Essentially, they're armed with more training. Also, they may suggest that she be treated as an inpatient if she is a high risk to herself.

@onona: sometimes people feel that the only way they'll get help is if they do something dramatic. she's obviously not getting what she needs (perhaps support from her family?) for her to act out this way. The fact that her method of choice isn't effective doesn't mean her problems are not severe. very few suicide attempts are because the person wants to actually -die-. What they want the most is to end their current suffering.

This.

I agree with Dammit. A psychiatrist or psychologist would be more beneficial to your sister. Also, you and your family should really talk to your sister, more often. Ask her what's troubling her, and assure her that you are all there for her. Sometimes it just takes communication and understanding from a loved one, to take a suicidal person out of that state. Sometimes the problem runs much deeper. In which case, I reiterate what Dammit said; take her to see a psychologist or psychiatrist. A good psychiatrist would be able to identify whether she has a genuine problem or if she's just "faking". So taking her to see a professional would benefit her/your'll either way.

[Cleric]

I went through something similar not even a year ago. There are several important things that you need to note:
1. Cry for help should not be viewed as a bad thing
2. If she's been seeing someone for over 3 months without results (or at least a slight improvement) they're doing a **** job
3. MOST IMPORTANTLY: When these kinds of problems persist and get worse, there is a VERY good chance that it's a hormone imbalance. There are pretty standard tests that any decent psychiatrist will do. Yes, she may have to go on anti-depresants for a while while the proper meds that get perscribe work their way into the system, and that will be hard on everyone, but one's mental health is worth a couple of ****ty months to preserve/save.

[Azraphael]

I have a question for Spjt07. Knowing your religious convictions, is she seeing a proper counselor? Or is she seeing a church councilor? For all I know she doesn't share your beliefs, but if she is seeing a church councilor, that may be your problem right there. I won't elaborate now, but I've been there. I'm just curious on your answer.

[Cleric]

Yeah, agreed. If the issue is anything deeper than a surface level issue, a church counselor is certainly not the way to go. They are qualified at being nice and not much else.

[dammit]

Yeah, agreed. If the issue is anything deeper than a surface level issue, a church counselor is certainly not the way to go. They are qualified at being nice and not much else.

Er, it depends. Quite a few have studied psychology as part of their course work if they have studied at all. At best, they're on the level of a counsellor (ie: honours in psychology) which is not really capable of dealing with a situation like this.

I would argue, though, that church counsellors do have their place. This is just not it.

[onona]

@onona: sometimes people feel that the only way they'll get help is if they do something dramatic. she's obviously not getting what she needs (perhaps support from her family?) for her to act out this way. The fact that her method of choice isn't effective doesn't mean her problems are not severe. very few suicide attempts are because the person wants to actually -die-. What they want the most is to end their current suffering.

But that's pretty much exactly what I said.

[Azraphael]

I would argue, though, that church counsellors do have their place. This is just not it.

Maybe in helping kids deal with divorce and what not, but not when suicide or drug addiction are concerned. Just my personal feelings.

[dammit]

At the risk of sounding horribly callous, if she keeps taking household medication (which is pretty commonly known to be an ineffective method of suicide) and telling people why she wants to end it all, I'd say she's not really serious about it and is looking for attention. If she's tried four times this month without succeeding, it's because she's not actually trying.

Take it or leave it, but that's the impression I get from your post. I'm not saying she's not depressed, but I am saying she's probably not that serious about taking her life.


But that's pretty much exactly what I said.

Sorry, your first post just comes off as 'yeah, she may be depressed but all this attention seeking behaviour is overdramatic'. Guess it's a misunderstanding due to the nature of the forums :P


Maybe in helping kids deal with divorce and what not, but not when suicide or drug addiction are concerned. Just my personal feelings.

Agreed.

[onona]

No, my post was pretty much saying she's probably not serious about dying, she's looking for attention. And by looking for attention, I don't mean attention whoring, I mean she's looking for attention from those around her for her problems.

[spjt07]

I have a question for Spjt07. Knowing your religious convictions, is she seeing a proper counselor? Or is she seeing a church councilor? For all I know she doesn't share your beliefs, but if she is seeing a church councilor, that may be your problem right there. I won't elaborate now, but I've been there. I'm just curious on your answer.

As far as I know the counselor is highly qualified in dealing with these sort of things and vastly experienced. She worked in drug rehabs and from what my mom has told me my sister respects her a lot which makes it easier for her to open up

The fact that she is a Christian and goes to the same church as my mom is more just the way things have unfolded. She was recommended to my mom by another member in the church who went through the same thing.

[spjt07]

The problem with my sister is that because she is a perfectionist and one bad thing that happens makes it seem like her whole world is at an end.

She started doing nursing at Greys in Pietermaritzberg after she left school, but couldn't cope. She says it was because she was too young to be so far away from home (we live in CT). Now after 8 years or so she started doing her training again. It shows that she has always been wanting to do her nursing.

She even regrets not completing her nursing the first time round at Grey's, Hence the reason why she is struggling to cope with being a student at the age of 29 doing something she was meant to finish so long ago. If she quits now then she will again regret it. We know that my sister will regret it and we know she just wants to stop just because she is having a hard time at the moment. But hard times are only temporary but the consequences that come about from those choices last so much longer.

Just as a matter of interest how many people are still studying in their late 20's or early 30's?

[Azraphael]

I'm in my late 20's and about to do my CCNA because it's taken 10 years and a lot of trial and error to find out what it is I wanna do.

[Cleric]

Well the point remains that if it isn't working for your sister, she must still change. She remains a councelor (how the **** do we spell that anyway) and not a real psychologist/phychiatrist. You asked for advice, there you have it.


Just as a matter of interest how many people are still studying in their late 20's or early 30's?

Why do I feel some sort of other agenda here all of a sudden?

[dammit]

I doubt "the problem is" that she's a perfectionist. undoubtedly, the perfectionism is a symptom of her deeper issues.

[spjt07]

Why do I feel some sort of other agenda here all of a sudden?

Well she wants to do nursing but compares herself to other people. She reckons by a certain age people should be finished studying and working full time. So because she doesn't meet up to her comparisons she doesn't want to continue doing nursing because she will have to redo her 3rd year. She wants to get back to working jobs that will not be very long term because she wants to start contributing and earning her own salary again.

In other words she is seeing herself as being imperfect and that gets her down so she would rather give up.

[Cleric]

Ok, once more with feeling:
YOU CAME HERE ASKING FOR ADVICE, NOW ALL YOU ARE DOING IS DUMPING HER GARBAGE ON US AFTER WE'VE GIVEN SOME VALID ADVICE. What is your deal? You just want to tell us everything that is wrong in your sisters life?

[onona]

:|

Quick, someone post a picture of some kittens.

[Die Jason]

http://images.free-extras.com/pics/k/kittens-463.jpg

Ok, done. Did it work?

[GeometriX]

Cleric WTF?

[Miktar]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/5ff47b10-6c8f-4c8b-8657-8fe0992f8c3a.jpg

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/3951c8ee-70d4-45dd-9b7f-d9dc6ecac8a0.jpg

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/9/15/a7b81f8e-2317-4b02-be4f-a164522822ed.gif

[Miktar]

Listen. I hate to be the seriously calloused one here, but if someone wants to commit suicide, that's their problem. And I don't say this lightly, I worked suicide hotline for a while, and in my extended family suicide was an issue.

If someone wants to reach out, connect to the world in an attempt to see where they stand, instead of kill themselves, that's their first step and it's one they have to take themselves.

If that doesn't work, well. Life isn't for everyone. I don't see suicide as a sin, or as anything wrong other than the obvious hurt it causes people that care for those who commit suicide. But, our lives are ours to life, or to take.

Futurama has it right, really. Suicide Booths would be common practice in a mature, responsible civilization.

What I don't like, is when someone is a repeat-attempter who seems to be just doing it for attention, or because they use it as a kind of mental crutch to stand on. "Oh, I'm so sad, my life is so hard, I'mma commit suicide".

If you're not living in Ethiopia, dying from lack of food with a distended stomach, your life is not that hard. If you have a roof over your head, family, or people that care for you, your life is not that hard.

Often, people mistakingly think their lives are hard, when the truth is, the choices they need to make are hard. But they're going to make it, or give up.

spjt07: the ball is in your sister's court. You can try to help, offer advice, but ultimately she has to sort her **** out, or just kill herself and get it over with so people can morn and move on with their lives.

EDIT: Or, as dammit reminded me, it could just be a broken engine which then requires a mechanic to look at it.

[dammit]

Miktar, it may be symptomatic of depression which may very well be caused by a chemical imbalance. It might not be her being like "oh my life is hard" but perhaps "i'm so tired of feeling this way all the time". You can never really know. That's another reason a psychologist is vital.

[Miktar]

You're absolutely right, dammit. It could be chemical imbalance, or something along those lines.

Yes, it may be. So pack her up and send her to a brain mechanic, have them take a look and if it is low oil, filler-up with meds.

Disclaimer: meds make cause depression, suicide, dihorrea or turn them into a psychopath.*

* I wish I was kidding.

[dammit]

Yeah, have you read the disclaimers on all medications? They're scary, but they're not a definite.

[Miktar]

I live in America. I'm constantly bombarded by disclaimers for medicine, advertised on TV.

"Depressed? Try Abilify! Warning, may cause suicide, depression and death".

Again, I wish I was kidding.

[dammit]

Oh i know. But this isn't isolated to anti-depressants. All medications have possible risks. That's a fact. But a lot of anti-depressants help a lot of people. We can't just dismiss that.

[Miktar]

Yeah, granted. But I was keeping in context of what spjt07 said - which doesn't sound to me like chemical imbalance, personally.

[dammit]

I doubt he really knows what's going on in her head, considering he keeps pointing towards perfectionism as a cause rather than a symptom. We hardly have enough information to draw conclusions on causes.

[Miktar]

Touche. But then I wonder, why even respond to him at all?

[dammit]

in the naive hope that he'd get his sister some help that she could do with.

[spjt07]

Yeah guys thanks for the help. Obviously it is my sisters decision what she is going to do, by either seeing a shrink or getting over it by herself without anybody else or just even ending her life (< **** I hope not).

The reason why I was explaining everything is because I was hoping to get some advice from some people who had dealt with the same sort of thing.

She is on meds for her depression. That does help but clearly doesn't cure her.

Ok, once more with feeling:
YOU CAME HERE ASKING FOR ADVICE, NOW ALL YOU ARE DOING IS DUMPING HER GARBAGE ON US AFTER WE'VE GIVEN SOME VALID ADVICE. What is your deal? You just want to tell us everything that is wrong in your sisters life?

Serious, I was explaining her side and what she is going through. Not dumping garbage but explaining a bit of background so everyone can understand. Not just saying the expected and o go to a shrink. Maybe a little from someone who has gone through the same thing and understands what the best input to the situation is.

[Cleric]

But that's exactly the point. Those of us who have gone through the same thing gave advice, which you ignored.

[spjt07]

But that's exactly the point. Those of us who have gone through the same thing gave advice, which you ignored.

I didn't ignore it. That's the thing. There was so much of it that it's a bit difficult to comment on everything everyone said. At the moment I am using somebody elses internet so I cannot be online for too long at a time. I was continuing on what I was saying from previous posts. As people were giving advice I was saying there is this and that. So that people can see where there advice fits in.
Trust me the advice helps a lot and I will chat with my ma and tell her the opinions of how other people got through it.

[dislekcia]

Hang on a second here...

Nursing is known for being a stressful profession. Nurses are often seen as dependable, unflappable people who deal with horrendous **** day in and day out for no greater reason than they feel they need to.

Has anyone raised the question of why your sister, who seems not to deal with stress particularly well, should continue into a profession which will be far more stressful day to day than her studies have been so far - and also allow her easy access to medication? This might not be a great idea. Is all I'm saying.

Similarly, the person that she's talking to for counseling is not an impartial unknown, but is a member of the same church and known by your family? That's a problem. There's a reason psychiatrists are impartial, how could your sister REALLY unburden herself if there's any chance at all that some of what she says might make it back to your mother? What if the problems are of a religious nature and your sister feels she cannot talk about that to anyone in your church? She needs someone who will not judge her and, quite frankly, she's ****ing old enough to not have her treatment options and decisions dictated by her mother.

[spjt07]

Well the counsellor is in the same church. My family doesn't know her tho and likewise she doesn't know us. As I say she was recommended to us.

The reason why she wants to do nursing is because she is wanting to move overseas and do nursing there. It is something she has really enjoyed in the past, its just this year that has been really tough for her, especially at the current clinic she is doing her pracs in. (She has tried to get a transfer but it was denied.)

But yeah when she comes out of this funk she will start enjoying this course and nursing again and even life. Bottom line is my family are going to just have to watch her like a hawk, be there for her, see what happens with the counsellor and if nothing improves we are going to have to take her to a shrink.

[spjt07]

Hang on a second here...



Similarly, the person that she's talking to for counseling is not an impartial unknown, but is a member of the same church and known by your family? That's a problem. There's a reason psychiatrists are impartial, how could your sister REALLY unburden herself if there's any chance at all that some of what she says might make it back to your mother? What if the problems are of a religious nature and your sister feels she cannot talk about that to anyone in your church? She needs someone who will not judge her and, quite frankly, she's ****ing old enough to not have her treatment options and decisions dictated by her mother.

Well right now my mom is the only person in the family that she feels comfortable talking to. She opened up a little to my girlfriend but not entirely.
My mom has always told my sister to do what makes her happy but she also warns that there are consequences to her actions. Then my sister sees the whole picture and realises the truth and moves on with her life. Then it starts again.

[spjt07]

Anyways thanks everyone for the help and advice. I will certainatly make use of it. I even want to commend Miktar, Dammit and Onona (and others, they know who they are) for giving advice to me even though recently we have had problems.
Really thanks. This will be my last post in the thread. So if a mod wants to lock or add its cool.