Evolution to be taught in SA schools

[Frozenfireside]

Evolution to be taught in SA schools

A clash between secular and religious conscience could unfold in South Africa?s education system -- and different interest groups are set to line up against one another. The teaching of evolution to grade 12 learners from next year might trigger an uproar among South African parents, teachers and religious sectors.

http://www.mg.co.za/ArticleList.aspx?area=/insight/insight__national/

Well finally!

[Miktar]

*blinks*

I was taught evolution in Primary School in South Africa.

WE HAVE THE CRADLE OF HUMANITY AS A GODDAMN TOURIST ATTRACTION IN SOUTH AFRICA, for pete's sake.

This is retarded.

[Frozenfireside]

I was taught basic evolution and cottened on to the clash between religion and evolution.
Asked the church dude (cant remember rank, name, position, etc)what he thought and he just rambled on about darwin being wrong and God being the only true creator.

[Chevron]

I remember learning about homo habilis ans homo erectus in STD 3. Never did anything on evolution in matric though. Oh well. It can only be a good thing.

[Gammaray]

Well, i guess if we had Bible class in school back in the day - they can teach evolution. People will still decide to believe in it or not .... but hey - at least we've shot ourselves in both feet.

[Domanskip]

I have never understood how evolution is considered as an attempt to disprove the existence of God. Whose to say that evolution wasn't God's doing? And to anyone who says its an attempt to disprove the existence of God, who are you to question his methods?

And to Frozenfireside, my priest came up with the same uncertain, weak answer. "It's right because we say it's right." seems to be the thinking most churches use and by using that thinking they narrow their minds and the minds of weaker people who don't have the ability to think for themselves: "Religion is the opium of society".

Evolution should be taught. No doubt. People should judge for themselves, not be spoon fed.

[Chevron]

who are you to question his methods?


Firstly god needs to proved that he exists. Until someone proves that he exists we have to assume that he doesn't. It's impossible to question the motives of someone that doesn't exist.

[Toi]

You guys just don't know when to stop do you.

[Q-Man]

Good gravy, must EVERY ****ing topic become some religious debate for you guys? Try to ****ing focus.

I think it's great that they're putting it into the curriculum. I don't recall learning about it (other than from my own curiosity), and if I did, it didn't make any impact really. From my own, religious, perspective, it would not have had any impact on my faith at all. In fact evolution just makes everything make more sense to me.

[Domanskip]

It's impossible to question the motives of someone that doesn't exist.

I was speaking about people who believe in God. Thus they believe he exists and by saying that evolution attempts to disprove his existence, they are questioning the methods of their all-knowing God.

[Chippit]

I heartily advise that all of you stop this argument before it begins. Derailing a legitimate topic over this again will be a damn shame.

[Chevron]

I was speaking about people who believe in God. Thus they believe he exists and by saying that evolution attempts to disprove his existence, they are questioning the methods of their all-knowing God.

I think that's gonna depend on each teacher's approach to the subject.

[Icenflame]

I like the fact that this is being taught, both Religion and Evolution can go hand in hand... It's people taking the literal sense from the bible, he took earth and then there was man etc (don't quote me on the reference it's broad and extremely general).

My dad was a very religious man but he was intelligent and thought for himself he taught me about evolution ... So I grew up with religion and evolution they both work well together if you don't take the literal meaning of the bible...

On the topic of religion and why it's always brought up well sometimes it's great to hear different views and thoughts on the matter it's all about personal perspective.

[Chippit]

On the topic of religion and why it's always brought up well sometimes it's great to hear different views and thoughts on the matter it's all about personal perspective.
I agree with you totally there. Debate is all about the exchange of logical ideas for the sake of furthering the discussion. However, threads that trail off into religious discussions inevitably draw the attention of people who are unable to debate the matter in a reasonable manner, and the thread thus deteriorates into pointless arguments. We had a thread about whether or not the religious discussion should even be made, and it has run its course. I think it's better that we not resurrect the matter so soon.

So, I say again. This topic should persist at discussing the matter at hand, and not the religious implications thereof.

[Frozenfireside]

Q-man~ the only reason its getting heated is because of you. Notice you have the power to not start getting angry.

Ignoring the topic wont make it go away people. This is RSA, NOT USA.
Ignorance may be bliss but shooting yourself in the foot isn't. ignoring issues is shooting yourself in the foot. Stop it!

He who controls religion, controls the nation.

Evolution disprooves God by saying that he is wrong. God is supposed to be infallible. There for its ****ing off alot of people.

I find being atheist makes life less complex.

[Cleric]

Agreed Icenflame. Who says God didn't work through evolution? It's my personal view that he does.

[Q-Man]

Q-man~ the only reason its getting heated is because of you. Notice you have the power to not start getting angry.

Um, no, but nice try *golf clap*

If you care to -READ- you'd see that I, in fact, did not 'heat' anything up. Merely told those who -were-, as you put it, making things 'heated', off.

kthx.

[cYn]

I know it's a little off topic, but its funny and people should laugh at this crap instead of getting all worked up. A goon drew it in Paint, it was about a Richard Dawkins interview with a guy that is pretty much a talkshow troll.

http://xs120.xs.to/xs120/07435/hadawkin.jpg

[dunjin]

^ Lol, I saw that on YouTube. Dawkins looked totally embarrassed to be there.

[Miktar]

HADAWKIN!

I approve.

[dammit]

I think that religious education should be taken out of schools anyway, since young people are easily influenced and should rather be allowed to make up their own minds. That said, evolution is scientific. And since science is an acceptable subject in school, I'm surprised it is only being introduced now. I know I was taught the basics of it, at some stage, but never in high school. I had to sit through Bible Studies though, for many of my school years. Which to me is totally unacceptable.

[Frozenfireside]

ie-Give them the options and let them choose.
nice idea but to give them the options you need to educate them.
I say teach both ideas but with no enforcement when it comes to the choice.

Thats where I also disagree with religion-They come up with crap like 'Play with it too much and it will drop off', 'Sex is the devils work, you will die in a firery ball in hell for doing so', 'Gay people are the spawn of satan'
Complete crap.

[dislekcia]

I needs to learn me that rebuttal attack...

QCF+punch, yesno?

-D

[Squirly]

I don't know where this thread's gone since the first page, though I can guess. Ignore this if you will.


And to anyone who says [evolution] is an attempt to disprove the existence of God, who are you to question his methods?

Catch 22? Dude, that's not fair. :(

[Icenflame]

Originally Posted by Domanskip View Post
And to anyone who says [evolution] is an attempt to disprove the existence of God, who are you to question his methods?


I don't know where this thread's gone since the first page, though I can guess. Ignore this if you will.
Catch 22? Dude, that's not fair. :(

In response to that... is man not meant to question everything that exists? And the reason for it's existence? Isn't he meant to question the existence of faith and 'higher powers?' I am a "FREE" man I was not born into my faith like many people did it not say in the bible that religion is a matter of choice? We are free souls meant to question everything in order to gain understanding...

/end rant ok enough... all this narrow mindedness is giving me a migraine!

[kolle_hond]

Story time!
http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=84

[TriggerHappy]

My school got rid of religious studies last year. The students were complaining that they mainly focused on Christianity and not all religions equally. As for evolution we only studied it for about a max of one week (all my years of school combined) .

[Miktar]

Story time!
http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=84

That was kinda lame.

[ShadowMaster]

Story time!
http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=84

The person who wrote that crap, certainly knew nothing about nuclear fusion. In stars 2 hydrogens fuse to form heliums and those in turn fuse to form heavier elements and so on.
The stars cool down and explode, releasing the elements into space.

The only thing that really makes sense in not making sense is "nothing exploded".

As for my oppinion on the topic at hand, I don't really care. I believe in God using evolution to make man, not that it matters, and remember The Bible only says God created man, NOT how he did it, as that is the only thing that matters in a religious scope.

[A.I.]

I stick to my saying 'religion is the cause of all conflict' even in our forums.

[Oeaks]

I go to a Catholic School, but I've been taught evolution, as well as other religions veiws on creation. I've never done bible studies



Evolution disprooves God by saying that he is wrong. God is supposed to be infallible. There for its ****ing off alot of people.

I find being atheist makes life less complex.

Evolution does not disprove God, it disprove the bible. The Bible says that God created the world in seven days.

[Gazza_N]

I stick to my saying 'religion is the cause of all conflict' even in our forums.

All conflicts? Errrrrrrm... No.

Otherwise I agree with Dammit. Teach kids what's been observed and the thinking behind it, then let them decide the metaphysics (or lack thereof) for themselves. Schools exist to educate, not indoctrinate.

[Azimuth]

Schools exist to educate, not indoctrinate.

Well, in theory, anyway. My postgraduate dissertation was about indoctrination in our education system, with particular reference to political and religious indoctrination. You'd be astonished how insidiously pervasive it is.

[PyscoTroj1n]

Whose to say that evolution wasn't God's doing?
How can it be God's doing if he specifically stated that man is different from animals and the preposterous evolution theory suggests that man came from monkeys or whatever.
The ''big bang'' suggests that the bang released energy(molecules,atoms,ect) that formed the planets. The theory also suggests that all the particles were rotating in the same direction when the bang took place, meaning that all planets should be spinning in the same direction, however there are planets which rotate in an anti-clockwise direction. Science also states that matter can not be created.How can the evolution theory be true if it suggests matter was created from nothing?
Futhermore I'd like to say that all things have creators, It's time you atheists realise that.
The beggining of all wisdom is the fear of the god.

[Azimuth]

PyscoTroj1n [sic], this thread is not a place for proselytising. Do not post such inflammatory remarks; we do not need another holy war cluttering up our database table space.

[.dB]

Firstly god needs to proved that he exists. Until someone proves that he exists we have to assume that he doesn't. It's impossible to question the motives of someone that doesn't exist.
Cosmological argument. Universe = Finite number of events. Event #1 = Creation of Universe. Cause #1 = Creator, aka God. In b4 "cause of cause #1?" and my reply that a cause cannot cause a cause.

I like how people always discuss God in a Christian context. How does evolution disprove the idea that the Universe had a creator?

[Repline]

Let them take the religion out of schools. It does not matter. (Quoting the bible, "somebody will always honor God, for if we humans stop, the rocks will call out in our stead") Depending on the the religious background you give your kid at home, that should be more than enough for him to make his own choices. Up to a certain age (usually 18) it is the responsability of the parent to ensure the religeous upbringing of any child, not the school. After 18 he makes his own choices, he / she / it has been given freedom of choice and as such has the right to decide to honor God or not. If you as a parent has done as was commanded, and your child decideds otherwise, he is aware of the consequences and will not upon the day of Judgement be able to say "but i didn't know" with freedom of choice, comes responsablity and accountability. Be prepared to face the concequences of your actions as the bible says.

[kHayne]

The theory also suggests that all the particles were rotating in the same direction when the bang took place, meaning that all planets should be spinning in the same direction, however there are planets which rotate in an anti-clockwise direction.

-_-

Take a gyroscope spinning clockwise.
Rotate it 90degrees.

It's still spinning clockwise.

You lack perspective.

[PyscoTroj1n]

It must be sad being an atheist, not knowing or caring where you came from and why you are here.

[Azimuth]

PyscoTroj1n, this is your second warning.

[Miktar]

It must be sad being an atheist, not knowing or caring where you came from and why you are here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/Colonna/permabanned1.gif

You can create another account, and come back next week Friday if you want to.

[kHayne]

But... but that's reincarnation. Zomgblasphemy!!

[ShadowMaster]

roflol at the gif, Miktar. Bet you were just waiting to use it.

EDIT: Not because it's fun to ban someone but rather because it's a funny pic.(Just so I don't seem tactless.)

[dammit]

I go to a Catholic School, but I've been taught evolution, as well as other religions veiws on creation. I've never done bible studies



Evolution does not disprove God, it disprove the bible. The Bible says that God created the world in seven days.

"seven days." Somewhere the bible also mentions that for God, our lifetimes flash by in a mere millisecond (or something like that...don't know the whole book off by heart). Therefore, God's "seven days" could have been a couple million years to us.

[dislekcia]

"seven days." Somewhere the bible also mentions that for God, our lifetimes flash by in a mere millisecond (or something like that...don't know the whole book off by heart). Therefore, God's "seven days" could have been a couple million years to us.

Somewhere in a book I read it mentioned that if you walk 7 times widdershins around a hill a door opens and if you go inside you might come out hundreds of years later. Therefore the earth must have gone into one of those when it first appeared and aged a ton before coming out again a week later.

-D

[Azimuth]

By Jove, I think he's got it.

[James Donaldson]

I'm a Jenova's Witness, I spread the word of Sephiroth, praise HOJO!
http://www.vgcats.com

[Chainsaw]

Isn't it *Jehova*?

[James Donaldson]

*cough* play Final Fantasy 7 or read the comic in the link I gave *cough*

[dislekcia]

Isn't it *Jehova*?

Could you be more retarded?

-D

[Frozenfireside]

Laughs at PyscoTroj1n for getting his religious message across by getting prermabanned.
>Tool<

Also laughs at Chainsaw Dude for grabbing the wrong end of the stick.

makes note of one of the better religious arguments in ages.
Thankx guys.

[Xastain]

I was speaking about people who believe in God. Thus they believe he exists and by saying that evolution attempts to disprove his existence, they are questioning the methods of their all-knowing God.

I agree with Domanskip to an extent - if you believe in God. There are people that see that evolution might have been the way God intended the development of man (or for whatever other mysterious reason). It follows a similar path to the Big Bang theory. Some believe it; some don't.

I didn't learn anything about evolution or the Big Bang in school. What I learned basically stemmed from what I read later, being inquisitive. The reverend at church had no clear answer - bless his soul! Fact of the matter is... some people believe in God or some other religious form that encapsulates more than one deity, and some don't. Some have their opinion, while others don't have an opinion of their own. Some will always find ways to explain theories and occurrences at the hand of "acts of God", while others will not or don't even bother to think about it. Believing or not believing does not necessarily make you a better person than the next. In the end, everyone has to decide/not decide for themselves. I think it is more important to treat other people with respect, regardless of whether they buy the evolution, Big Bang, or whatever theory. Remember: to some, God is also theory/non-existent. That doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't exist, but for the particular person in question it might be the case.

I think that it can be a good thing to have the evolution theory taught in SA schools, as I don't like others to tell me what to think, nor do I like to tell others what to think - except when you need to flush the DNS cache (some stuff only has one right way of doing it)...

[Cleric]

Wow, epic necropost.

[Squirly]

I know I'm not supposed to respond to these and it'll be locked anyway, but it really makes me wonder at times. The extent to which people dig through old stuff and then still feel the need to respond to a topic that every one has spent all their steam on a year ago.

A whole damn year!

[onona]

At least it resurrected a somewhat entertaining read.

[Xastain]

LOL! Well, if you're out of steam, I'm really sorry...

See, I haven't been around for the past year. It's not that I've only just started growing a brain or an arm or a stump of a leg or something, I've just been really busy... and to be quite honest, I didn't really look at the expiry date on the pack! (I lied about the part where I said I haven't been growing a brain, but I have got two keyboard-capable hands though!) I am rather new to this concept of I just felt like voicing my opinion - right place, doggone wrong time! Sooooorry...

[Soppy]

If I ever get over my loathing of children and reproduce I would like them to be informed about as much as possible at school, whether I agree with it or not.

To not agree with evolution is one thing but to not allow it to be mentioned in an objective fashion is a disservice to one's offspring which I can little reasonable argument for.

Personally I only found out about evolution because I read the book "The Beagle" in Grd 6. Had never heard of Charles Darwin before. Yes my school was very... well you get the idea.

[dammit]

Information should be provided, not forced on anyone, so that people are capable of making informed decisions.

[Miktar]

Oh for the love of all that is holy...


*LOCK*