BSc vs. BIS

[UntouchableOne]

Ok. I have to make a choice now. I have been accepted on grounds of my current grades for either the BSc(computer science)/(IT) orBIS(specialise in multimedia) courses. I would like to pursue a career in game design, animation, anything creative but also involving technical knowledge as i love programming with a passion. If all fails I would settle for a career in software development. So I would like to ask those of you having knowledge and/or experience in the IT world, which coarse should I choose? Which one is more welcome in companies whether it be a game studio or a development firm? Your help will be appreciated.

[dislekcia]

I'm a game designer, I have a BSc(IT).

I think it really depends on what you want to do and what you expect to get out of your degree. Both will give you useful skills only if you're keen to work at attaining those skills, you can pass subjects and end up getting a degree rather easily without bothering to work. If you know what you want and why you're doing all this, you'll work harder and retain/understand a lot more of what you'll be surrounded with.

If you want to be able to fall back on programming as a career I'd suggest the BSc. I did a lot of project work with the Multimedia students while I was at university (mainly because I took a ton of non-standard classes to make myself a better future game designer, some of those were multimedia courses) and they were noticeably struggling with some of the programming work. That said, there were a few that were better than I was, they just worked really hard and did the hard stuff to make sure they could go toe to toe with the more in-depth programming courses.

While some places may see the two degrees as similar, they're rather different in terms of skills. MM will focus on web-centric stuff and Flash (paying a lot of attention to users), the IT degree with focus on programming across multiple languages and the theoretical background to that. If you're keen to go the indie route I'd suggest the Multimedia degree, as it will help you be more of a "whole-package" developer capable of doing art, sounds and logic.

In the end the most important thing is to be sure that you're tailoring what you do at university to make sense to you and your goals. Pick your courses wisely, don't be afraid of experimenting with a few way out ones too ;)

-D

[Chevron]

When I was in varsity my lecturers were telling that a Bsc isn't really an end in itself, but rather a stepping stone to something else. If you don't plan on studying more after the Bsc I'd say take the Bis. As dislekcia said. It's more well rounded for what you wanna do as well.

[UntouchableOne]

I'm unsure about something, is it possible to take the BSc as my main course but take some subjects such as artificial intelligence, computer graphics etc from the multimedia course as secondary subjects? And another thing , will software companies(not game studios) look at the BIS as a good degree for candidates? About the experimenting with other courses, I was thinking about computer engineering but I doubt it is wise for a career in game development.

[infinitely_blue]

@ Dis - I am currently doing my Bsc IT and I plan on doing the BA Game Design through UAT. I was under the impression that Game Design and Game programming were two completely different things

[Etienne]

I'm unsure about something, is it possible to take the BSc as my main course but take some subjects such as artificial intelligence, computer graphics etc from the multimedia course as secondary subjects? And another thing , will software companies(not game studios) look at the BIS as a good degree for candidates? About the experimenting with other courses, I was thinking about computer engineering but I doubt it is wise for a career in game development.

I work for one of the largest banks in South Africa as a developer. All developers here have BSc Degrees. Business Analysts have BCom degrees. I have yet to see a developer with a BIS degree.

As for the additional subjects: I have no clue where you are going to study, but UJ (ex-RAU) provides 3D Computer Graphics and Artificial Intelligence as subjects in your Honours (4th) year. I took Computer Graphics as a subject. It's a pretty good subject to have, but you must like math.

[dislekcia]

@ Dis - I am currently doing my Bsc IT and I plan on doing the BA Game Design through UAT. I was under the impression that Game Design and Game programming were two completely different things

Game design and game programming are indeed two different things. From what I saw of the UAT course material when ITI were promoting them locally, it looked as if they were offering "game art lite" instead of game design.

Game design, game programming and game art are three different things. Make sure you know what you're getting into. Just because I know how to program doesn't mean that I can't be a game designer. Don't make the mistake of assuming that what you get a qualification for is the only thing you're qualified to ever do.

-D

[dislekcia]

I'm unsure about something, is it possible to take the BSc as my main course but take some subjects such as artificial intelligence, computer graphics etc from the multimedia course as secondary subjects? And another thing , will software companies(not game studios) look at the BIS as a good degree for candidates? About the experimenting with other courses, I was thinking about computer engineering but I doubt it is wise for a career in game development.

That's a strange-sounding multimedia course there... I did AI and graphics in my third year of my BSc. I would typically put those in a traditional BSc course-load, sounds like the multimedia side has fleshed itself out with theory, good.

I wasn't talking about experimenting with entire degrees, just courses. For instance: I took a lot of Visual Communication modules from the Visual Arts faculty so that I could learn the lingo, analyse correctly and communicate with artists properly. Games need a lot of art ;)

In the end, most vaguely technical degrees are seen as similar by employers that don't have those degrees themselves. If your boss doesn't know the intricacies of what you did in your BIS or BSc, they'll care much more about how you finished it and how long it took you. Whereas an employer with a BSc is going to feel more comfortable hiring BSc students because they'll be expecting certain skills and outlooks. Same goes for other degrees held by employers.

-D

*edit* Yes, it's completely possible to take different courses to your prescribed ones during your degree. It usually takes people around a year to figure out exactly how that all works though... Sorry for not properly answering the question earlier.

[UntouchableOne]

Thanks a lot guys.
@ Dislekcia: many thanks, did you study at UP? and did you take the BSc(IT) or the BSc(computer science)? I think if I go with the BSc, it will be the best choice as I recently learned that you can take other courses. I will have the skills for game design and if all fails, I can use it to be a developer.

[Banlam]

@ Dislekcia: ...and did you take the BSc(IT) or the BSc(computer science)?


I'm a game designer, I have a BSc(IT)..

[dislekcia]

Thanks a lot guys.
@ Dislekcia: many thanks, did you study at UP? and did you take the BSc(IT) or the BSc(computer science)? I think if I go with the BSc, it will be the best choice as I recently learned that you can take other courses. I will have the skills for game design and if all fails, I can use it to be a developer.

Yeah, I studied at UP. I think my final degree went under BSc:IT Computer Systems or something like that. You can hop around between those related degrees, provided you stay within the same faculty.

I actually applied for the BSc and was very nearly forced into taking the BIT "equivalent". The BIT degree fell under a different faculty and I wanted the science part ;) We all attended the same lectures anyway...

-D

[UntouchableOne]

Thanks Banlam, I just wanted to make sure D wasn't mistaken.
@ dislekcia: thanks, then i guess I'm gonna go with the BSc(IT)-the computer science degree seems to be notorious for making some students drop out or change degrees(a few people I know were victims and they were top students at high school). With this degree, I guess I could make it in game design or software development with the addition of some other courses. I asked if you studyed at UP to be assured that I can take subjects like "artificial intelligence" etc in addition to the BSc degree. Thanks to everyone for the help. I think I'll be making the right choice.

[infinitely_blue]

Game design and game programming are indeed two different things. From what I saw of the UAT course material when ITI were promoting them locally, it looked as if they were offering "game art lite" instead of game design.

Game design, game programming and game art are three different things. Make sure you know what you're getting into. Just because I know how to program doesn't mean that I can't be a game designer. Don't make the mistake of assuming that what you get a qualification for is the only thing you're qualified to ever do.

-D

Sorry, Dis, I was merely asking, but thx for the info. I was actually considering doing the UAT course through their online campus and not ITI. From what I hear, ITI has stopped trying to bring that course through.

Anyway, thx for the info. :)

[Banlam]

Thanks Banlam, I just wanted to make sure D wasn't mistaken

Oh, sorry. Thought you had just missed it.

[dislekcia]

Thanks Banlam, I just wanted to make sure D wasn't mistaken.
@ dislekcia: thanks, then i guess I'm gonna go with the BSc(IT)-the computer science degree seems to be notorious for making some students drop out or change degrees(a few people I know were victims and they were top students at high school). With this degree, I guess I could make it in game design or software development with the addition of some other courses. I asked if you studyed at UP to be assured that I can take subjects like "artificial intelligence" etc in addition to the BSc degree. Thanks to everyone for the help. I think I'll be making the right choice.

If you're talking about things like physics and statistics, yes those courses do kick people around a bit, but only if they're not doing their homework. Devote a couple of hours a week to both from the word go and you'll be fine. I personally stayed clear of stats, but physics was a necessary evil: You need it in games, after all ;)

AI and Graphics were both 3rd year Computer Science subjects when I did my degree, the BSc course was their natural home. So unless something has changed since, you shouldn't have any difficulty in doing them.

The real course that made people quit computer science was the introduction to C and data structures course. Apparently that got split into 2 separate courses now, so it shouldn't be as hard as it was. That's the one to look out for, at any rate.

-D

[dislekcia]

Sorry, Dis, I was merely asking, but thx for the info. I was actually considering doing the UAT course through their online campus and not ITI. From what I hear, ITI has stopped trying to bring that course through.

Anyway, thx for the info. :)

I wasn't upset at all, I'm just saying that the last thing you should ever do is expect your university degree to dictate your entire life.

My dad got a doctorate in physics, moved to another country and started doing medical research. He's changed careers twice (possibly three times) since then, still no real physics going on in what he does, besides the everyday kind ;)

Personally that UAT Game Design course didn't seem to be about game design at all. The closest they got was level design, very little about narrative theory, ludology, etc.

-D

[Kensei]

As for the additional subjects: I have no clue where you are going to study, but UJ (ex-RAU) provides 3D Computer Graphics and Artificial Intelligence as subjects in your Honours (4th) year. I took Computer Graphics as a subject. It's a pretty good subject to have, but you must like math.

I'm sorry but I have to say this - Check what textbook they are using in AI for the Honours course at UJ. I did mine last year and the lecturer chose one that was a collection of doctorate papers and she taught us f**k all. Thank CliffyB I actually did an AI course in undergraduate otherwise it would have killed my love of the subject.

And yes, Computer Graphics requires lots of maths - not to be confused with Desktop Publishing or making pretty pictures. Computer Graphics is about how you draw the things on screen using matrices and vectors and 3D trig.

I did a Bachelor of IT at Bond University (South Africa) and then my Honours at UJ.
I actually prefer the more Programming route as it probably makes you think a lot more - it also makes you more versatile in the workplace.

It might just be my one-sided opinion, but it is better to know how to program and do something else (like I do, I'm a Systems Admin) than not know and try to learn later. The concepts of programming remain constant throughout different programming languages.

[UntouchableOne]

There is a chance that I might find the computer science degree manageable but I don't want to take any chances and waste my time in a degree that I might have to change. I'm sure the current BSc(IT) includes physics(well I hope it does).

[Etienne]

I'm sorry but I have to say this - Check what textbook they are using in AI for the Honours course at UJ. I did mine last year and the lecturer chose one that was a collection of doctorate papers and she taught us f**k all.

Hence why I didn't take the subject. I wasn't in the mood going over AI algorithms I could have googled for.

But, to be fair to UJ, their BSc. IT courses are on average of very high standard. The Computer Graphics course is really really good. As is the Systems Programming and most of the pre-grad subjects.

[Kensei]

Hence why I didn't take the subject. I wasn't in the mood going over AI algorithms I could have googled for.

But, to be fair to UJ, their BSc. IT courses are on average of very high standard. The Computer Graphics course is really really good. As is the Systems Programming and most of the pre-grad subjects.

I agree that the Computer Graphics course was possibly pretty good - its taught by Dr. Hardy last I checked (and his is a VERY smart man)

I'll give a reality check - Yes, doing graphics and multimedia is really cool; in fact I want to do that at some point. But the chances of finding a 'good' multimedia job without work experience is quite hard (I would assume)... and they usually don't have much growth potential... just Junior Graphics Designer, Senior Graphics Designer and...um... Marketing Manager?

[UntouchableOne]

I think a creative career like animation-working in a co such as disney/pixar would be really exciting and personally rewarding. I would like to have a wide range of skills in the field of multi-media and game design, it would make one versatile in developing and understanding fellow team members when involved in a large project.

[SkinkLizzard]

You could always opt for a BSc engineering: chemical :)
whats that going to help me with game design ? probably nothing :)
But I have a whole diabolical plan drafted so all is well.
I have friends doing BSc (comp sci) and it seems its actually maths they're failing, and the funny thing is they cant take comp sci second year without first year maths, even though they're aceing first year comp sci with like 90's.

[Darkmag]

I'm a Bis(multimedia) student at UP. For the first two year you will take all the same computer subjects as the Bsc students

If you take Bsc you have to be strong in mathematics especially if you want to do AI you should at least get 60% HG if you want to pass the maths here.

Here the layout BIS(Multimedia) and Bsc first year subjects

First Year for BIS
Note COS=computer science subjects and WTW= MATHS

CIL 111->basic pc stuff all students have to take it unless you pass the exemption exam
CIL 121->compulsory second semester subject really easy
EOT 110->pass exemption exam at start of year to avoid it (Exam = easy)
EOT 120->pass the same EOT110 exam and you dont have to take it
IMY 110->Internet mark up language(HTML)
IMY 120->Internet mark up language(HTML)
INL 110->Information science(KAK SUBJECT)
INL 120->Information organization(KAK subject)
INL 140->Computer Information(The basic of computers EASY)
COS 110->Introduction to java(Not hard)
COS 151->Introduction to computer science(REALLY EASY)
COS 140->Netcentric computer systems(not hard but can be KAK)
VIO 102->Visual design(3dstudio max)

Bsc first Year
CIL 111
CIL 121
EOT 110
EOT 120
COS 110
COS 151
COS 140
EOS 284
WTW 114-> I suggest you take 101
WTW 115
WTW 126

Basicly Bis students will be able to work with website Design, Animation, Flash, PhotoShop, Programming, video editing, 3d design. (Well multimedia stuff :P)

[Kensei]

Well, Depends on the learner...

@UntouchableOne: Do you have a natural artistic talent? E.g. a creative flair.
Because to get into Pixar or Disney, you not only have to know how to draw, but you need to know how to draw well

I guess I am just jealous since I was never given the opportunity to do cool things like animation and multimedia, eventhough I am a lot more creative than I am mathematical

[UntouchableOne]

I think it's also the maths that my friends struggled with and they eventually changed subjects.
@Darkmag: I see that multimedia gives you all the skills to be an indie developer. It makes you a "one man band" i guess but I don't know how well large studios would accept someone with that degree.
@Kensei: I am quite creative and good at drawing-sketching mostly, I am terrible at painting and stuff like that. Unfortunately I wasn't allowed to take art as a subject at school-it didn't fit in with my other subjects says my teacher. I'm very strong at logical stuff like programming though but I would like to explore my creative side too. I guess you need both logic and creativity to make it in developing games.

[Darkmag]

I think it's also the maths that my friends struggled with and they eventually changed subjects.
@Darkmag: I see that multimedia gives you all the skills to be an indie developer. It makes you a "one man band" i guess but I don't know how well large studios would accept someone with that degree.


Large studio only hire people with working experience in that field. Don`t expect to come out and get a top job. You have to work your way to the top.

[UntouchableOne]

Hard work is a given. Hard work, experience, a portfolio and a good degree-you need all if you want to make it in game design.

[Etienne]

You need a portfolio if you want to get in to the game dev/design business. Start designing some maps, make some mods, code some 3D demos, etc.

It'll all help.