No Petrol

[Miktar]

It seems the city of Johannesburg - the economic center of the country - has run out of fuel. The petroleum workers union is striking for higher wages, which has left the petrol stations with long queues of cars filled with worried, angry South Africans.

There is no word yet on when the strike might end.

We managed to find a station with fuel, and are now filling up our half-tank to full. It cost R234.00.

I've sms'ed my bosses and co-workers to tell them what we're doing, and why we're running a bit late.

Update: I just heard that the government has put forth an offer to the striking parties, which has not yet been officially rejected by them. However, the striking parties are all over the news, saying they have rejected the offer.

The petrol shortages is happening due to the distribution depots being shut down due to safety reasons, for there are people picketing outside them and blocking the gates.

[Q-Man]

I was lucky enough to get a full tank o' petroleum last night. My parents saw a fuel truck stopping at the near-by Engen and gave me the call.

Lucky me I suppose.

All these strikes. sigh.

[GeometriX]

I have about 5 litres of petrol left in my tank, which means I'm not going to work/college/shops/anywhere unless it's some sort of emergency.

Thanks ****ers.

[Azimuth]

All together now, "Banana republic!"

[wisp]

Time to dust of the old 10 speed again:)

[Q-Man]

Well, seeing as this is SA and all, what's the harm in siphoning (also 'syphoning' if you want to have a choice) some petrol out of somebody else's car? That's how we roll. Actually, in all seriousness, I'd watch where you park your car.

[Frozenfireside]

I got petrol last night but only 3/4 tank.
I should go into the petrol industry I rate.
Imagine selling your entire stock of petrol in 24 hours and because theres a strike-You can have the weekend off.

[Miktar]

Yeah, but then at the end of the month when you have to pay your staff salaries, you didn't earn enough for it. :/

[Gen0cyde]

Filled up Yesterday morning.
My petrol lasts me 2 or 3 days max so Im pretty worried about a shortage. I might just go hunting today for some petrol and fill up one of those gas containers.

[Banlam]

Well, seeing as this is SA and all, what's the harm in siphoning (also 'syphoning' if you want to have a choice) some petrol out of somebody else's car? That's how we roll. Actually, in all seriousness, I'd watch where you park your car.

Usually if you want to get petrol out of someone's car, their petrol cap has to be open. This is difficult when most petrol caps have to be opened from within the car, or unlocked with the car's key.

[Azimuth]

Pfft. That's hardly a hindrance to some people. When my stolen car was recovered by police six months later, it was sporting a lovely new petrol cap.

[Q-Man]

Usually if you want to get petrol out of someone's car, their petrol cap has to be open. This is difficult when most petrol caps have to be opened from within the car, or unlocked with the car's key.

Lol, like Azimuth said - so? It won't stop people. By that logic no car should ever get stolen :P

[Mouse]

LOL SA is turning into Zimbabwe?

[Miktar]

LOL SA is turning into Zimbabwe?

Um. No. The situation in Zimbabwe is far more dire than anything you might ever experience in your lifetime here in South Africa.

[Toi]

I was wondering when this was gonna pop up. I for one am totaly and utterly "gat vol" of all these strikes. Our company suffers dearly because of all of this. That's what I have against these strikes, innoccent people have to suffer.

All our cars are full so no worries there, depending on how long the strike will last.

See, some guys strike, they become persistent, they win, everyone else sees it and does the same. Wait and see, this is not the end of it. Next is Eskom, then Telkom, banks etc.

You know what, I sometimes wonder if SA as we know it will see the next 10 years? The rate at which this country is falling apart is frighting.

[Miktar]

It was discussed in the news recently that one of the big problems of South Africa, is that South Africans are extremely short-sighted - they tend to only consider what directly affects them, and move only to rectify those things, instead of looking at the long-term repercussions of their actions.

[Toi]

I know exactly what you mean. I just shake my head when I think about this, most of these strikers lose more than what they gain. Strike for a week, that means a week without pay, get a 7% increase and it would take you months to make up that weeks sallary.

Isn't that what happend to Zimbabwe too. They just thought about driving out the farmers and having the country all to themselfs not thinking about who's going to do the farming and where the foods going to come from. Now, thousands of them are entering our country. Their all over the place. One rocks up here every five minutes looking for a job, it's driving me nuts.

It's a case of "jy kyk nie verder as jou neus nie".

[wisp]

I know exactly what you mean. I just shake my head when I think about this, most of these strikers lose more than what they gain. Strike for a week, that means a week without pay, get a 7% increase and it would take you months to make up that weeks sallary.

I feel sorry for the strikers as well and can't blame them for striking. we all want a living wage and as the petrol price goes up most months anyway.I say give them what they want, we are going to be paying more for petrol anyway and i would rather see it going to them than the Fat Cats in management.

[Mouse]

Um. No. The situation in Zimbabwe is far more dire than anything you might ever experience in your lifetime here in South Africa.

I know that, I was being silly :)

[Gammaray]

I had to go through 3 garages yesterday night to get me some fuel, finally got at the fourth one - sasol. This can cause serious **** if it isn't solved soon. I heard on the radio that most analysts predict a 2 week strike ! Thats me totally fuucked! (well, and most of us too) And when this is finally resolved, who will be next? Who will be the next short sighted union / working class? Rediculous doesn't start to describe it.

[dammit]

Luckily it hasn't really affected durban yet. I understand the frustration that everyone feels at being without petrol (and thus transport) but I really feel for the people who strike. They (like the teachers) deserve to be paid more...and the tiny increase they'll recieve is hardly going to make a difference...and yet...

[Gen0cyde]

And when this is finally resolved, who will be next? Who will be the next short sighted union / working class? Rediculous doesn't start to describe it.

NAG Staff? ;)

Surely there must be some kind of plan to get petrol to the stations, if the strike lasts for 2 weeks then that wont just cripple the garage stations but pretty much everybody and every business in the country. People have to get to work, if you dont have petrol and no other station has petrol you cant exactly take a bus then huh?

[Gldm]

It's really going to be a problem once the diesel's gone. How long do you think the average supermarket can last without trucks restocking it? People having to carpool or bike to work or sit out a few days is an inconvenience. Starvation is another matter. Most likely someone will give before it comes to that though.

[Gambit]

It's really going to be a problem once the diesel's gone. How long do you think the average supermarket can last without trucks restocking it? People having to carpool or bike to work or sit out a few days is an inconvenience. Starvation is another matter. Most likely someone will give before it comes to that though.

The chances of that happening is very unlikely in my opinion, seeing as though it's not like their is no more oil in the country, there will be action taken way before it gets that far. I believe we might have a small issue now because people are being a bit to paranoid and filling up all over the place causing the stations to become empty faster than usual, but that will pass as soon as the guys start shipping again.

[Insomniac]

Despite an article in the newspaper today explaining that KZN won't be affected by the shortage for now, we are starting to get hit. It took 4 petrol stations until I could find some unleaded just now. Let's hope things get sorted soon.

[GeometriX]

I managed to fill up today. Sat in a queue for about 10 minutes, and that was that. Luckily, there is a petrol station fairly nearby that almost always seems to be on top of situations like this. There are a lot of smart petrol station owners making some serious dosh at the moment.

[icebreaker202]

It would b funny if a game developer like EA or ROCK* striked the only thing that will happen is that the game will be delayd. Did I spell delayd right? lol.

[Banlam]

It would b funny if a game developer like EA or ROCK* striked the only thing that will happen is that the game will be delayd. Did I spell delayd right? lol.

no you didn't. its delayed. And it no it wouldn't be funny.

[Toi]

I see all of you posting and saying "ahhh shame" to the strikers. Why? It's not our responsibility to put food on their table. It's their boss’s responsibility. They offer a service to their boss and they should get paid in return. It's the same with business. You offer a service, you get money in return. Whether that money that you receive in return is fair or not is an issue that should be resolved between the two active parties, not us.

We have NOTHING to do with how much they get paid, so why must we suffer for it. I laugh at these fools. I personally think that striking is unethical, uncivilized and just plain stupid. We won’t even talk about when things really gets bad and violent.

Do you realize the effects this has on our economy, what if the government decides to push up the income tax or whatever to make up for the huge losses they suffer because of these strikes? Would you still feel sorry for them?

[wisp]

the shortage hasn't hit us yet but its coming , any news if they reached an agreement?

[Miktar]

I heard on Talk Radio this morning, that no agreement has been made yet.

[Chevron]

yesterday I saw a guy with a bakkie filling up 20L containers full of petrol at one of the stations with petrol.

[PloPshoP]

It all comes down to inflation. The short-sighted strikers (as was mentioned earlier) might get their 7 or 8 percent increase now, but more money does not solve problems. The more money that's put into circulation (here I include the massive public service sector strike) the higher prices will rise. The same amount of work is being done for more money. This is where the average non-striking Joe will feel the biggest pinch; inflation will rise and people in the private sector will still be paid the same salary.

[MrDeVil_909]

yesterday I saw a guy with a bakkie filling up 20L containers full of petrol at one of the stations with petrol.

Anyone else remember when it was illegal to buy more than 5 litres of petrol in a container? I wonder if that law is still in place and is just ignored.

Anyway, yesterday I saw a tanker at my local garage and nearly caused several accidents to get there to fill up. So let the strike go on. ;)

[FoX]

Why not just fire them all and upgrade the stations with self serves fill ups and pay in the shop like thay have in america, and then the petrol co. will make even more money

[Miktar]

Why not just fire them all and upgrade the stations with self serves fill ups and pay in the shop like thay have in america, and then the petrol co. will make even more money

South Africa has laws that prohibit exactly this. A company is required to have a certain amount of human staff.

[wisp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoX9
Why not just fire them all and upgrade the stations with self serves fill ups and pay in the shop like thay have in america, and then the petrol co. will make even more money



South Africa has laws that prohibit exactly this. A company is required to have a certain amount of human staff.

Jeez glad to hear that dont fancy being replaced by selfservice or a machine just yet, and this would do wonders to our already high unemployment figures :eek:

[FoX]

At least it would stop the sriking

[Nimue]

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoX9
Why not just fire them all and upgrade the stations with self serves fill ups and pay in the shop like thay have in america, and then the petrol co. will make even more money




Jeez glad to hear that dont fancy being replaced by selfservice or a machine just yet, and this would do wonders to our already high unemployment figures :eek:

Not to mention hijackings!

[Cyberninja]

Despite an article in the newspaper today explaining that KZN won't be affected by the shortage for now, we are starting to get hit. It took 4 petrol stations until I could find some unleaded just now. Let's hope things get sorted soon.

Yeah. We are starting to feel it in Durban now. Had to drive around quite a bit to find a station with petrol in my area. Dammit. This is not cool at all.

[Insomniac]

Yeah. We are starting to feel it in Durban now. Had to drive around quite a bit to find a station with petrol in my area. Dammit. This is not cool at all.
Seeing the agreement has been reached things should be fine for you now, I drove past the petrol stations today that didn't have petrol before and they seem to be back up and running.

[Cyberninja]

Yeah, hope everything returns back to normal soon. Was starting to get worried. Even ninjas need wheels sometimes. ;-)

[dammit]

Yeah. We are starting to feel it in Durban now. Had to drive around quite a bit to find a station with petrol in my area. Dammit. This is not cool at all.


Heey, what do I have to do with it? He he, just teasing. Anyway, so much for the panicking...

[Garson007]

And again the media screwed over society by making everyone worry, well done old chap.

[.dB]

993 years till Y3K. Are you ready?

[Miktar]

And again the media screwed over society by making everyone worry, well done old chap.

No, the media did its job and reported what was going on - it's up to society to decide how to respond to it.

You're saying ignorance is better?

[Garson007]

Ignorance is bliss, after all. As you know most people can't handle the facts of something changing in their environment, they don't try and adapt, they panic. All this in turn cause even the more reasonable of people to start panicking. In the end we sit with a problem which would not nearly be as problematic if people didn't fill up all their cars in a one day interval. If things were to be kept quiet there might be a slight slump, but nothing to worry about. This can be seen from the previous fuel crises situation and, as this is now the one stuck in my head, Saambou bank. It's that the media, via sensationalism, make people insecure about their investments/etc.

I doubt I'll live to see the day, but I'd put my money on free speech being seen in the same vain as communism, on the evilness scale, somewhere in the future. Don't get me wrong, I love free speech, but in the end it will be our or its own undoing.

[Miktar]

Ignorance is bliss, after all. As you know most people can't handle the facts of something changing in their environment, they don't try and adapt, they panic. All this in turn cause even the more reasonable of people to start panicking. In the end we sit with a problem which would not nearly be as problematic if people didn't fill up all their cars in a one day interval. If things were to be kept quiet there might be a slight slump, but nothing to worry about. This can be seen from the previous fuel crises situation and, as this is now the one stuck in my head, Saambou bank. It's that the media, via sensationalism, make people insecure about their investments/etc.

I doubt I'll live to see the day, but I'd put my money on free speech being seen in the same vain as communism, on the evilness scale, somewhere in the future. Don't get me wrong, I love free speech, but in the end it will be our or its own undoing.

I hope I never meet you.

[Nandrew]

I won't adopt any extremes, but the media *is* something of a panic monger. It's a sad result of bad news selling well.

As for free speech in general, imma sitting on the fence.

[Miktar]

Let's hear it for generalization. "The Media". Next people are going to say "The Man".

"The Media" doesn't exist. What exists, are several media outlets. What people NEED to do, is pay attention to the RIGHT ones. Stop listening to 5FM, for example... switch to Talk Radio, which ADVISED people NOT TO GO FILL UP.

Gods.

It's like people want to be spoon-fed.

[Nandrew]

Let's hear it for generalization. "The Media". Next people are going to say "The Man".

"The Media" doesn't exist. What exists, are several media outlets. What people NEED to do, is pay attention to the RIGHT ones. Stop listening to 5FM, for example... switch to Talk Radio, which ADVISED people NOT TO GO FILL UP.

Gods.

It's like people want to be spoon-fed.

Dude, seriously, "The Media" exist. In all their badass glory.

And there is rarely good news from ANY media outlet. The best you get from changing the channel / frequency / newspaper subscription is usually a different slant on the same crisis.

I don't doubt that Talk Radio gave different advice to 5FM, but for pete's sake, it was still reporting on the same petrol shortage. And you can tell me 'til you're blue in the face that they weren't trying to sensationalise, but that doesn't change the fact that they were still delivering an "uh oh" instead of a "yippee".

Have fun trying to find "Good News Radio". If it exists, it'll air for an hour a day.

[Miktar]

No, "The Media" does not exist - that's what people say when they want to remove responsibility from themselves, and blame the faceless media.

Talk Radio did not deliver an "uh oh" stance. Listen to Talk Radio sometime.

[Nandrew]

No, "The Media" does not exist - that's what people say when they want to remove responsibility from themselves, and blame the faceless media.

Talk Radio did not deliver an "uh oh" stance. Listen to Talk Radio sometime.

If Talk Radio delivered a warning about not filling up, I call that an "uh-oh". True, I'm only basing my own point on your testimony, so if I've misunderstood, mibad.

And "the media" do exist. Neggie swaps. Neggie touchbacks. These "several media outlets" discussed are merely a verbal workaround for the same basic concept: there are a group of media outlets, they have a common goal to inform the public, and there's a lot of news overlap and interconnectedness **** that goes on. So instead of calling them "several media outlets" all the time, they are known as "the media".

But I'll tell you what, I think I see your point. "The Media" doesn't exist, no, but -- and this is an important but -- "the media" do. The former is a scary conglomerate fairytale with capital letters, the latter is a mere quirk of the English language which quite accurately describes what I'm trying to put across.

Clarification on my original argument, using clearer terms as desired: >.<

The media, that group of media outlets, that whole bunch of blokes who all like delivering us news, whatever it is you want to call this whole mess, bring bad news. Caxton, Independent, Johnnic and Naspers all do it. SABC, e-TV and M-net do it. Sonneblom-fokof Radio in the Klein Karoo do it. Dude, please please please lemme just call them the damn "media" and save all this listing. Because this is interfering with my original point. Bad news = sell. Good news = occasional novelty.

If you want to argue that the media *don't* deliver bad news, then fine. I'll totally engage you on that and I feel that some valid opinions can be brought up on both sides. But I'm not interested in spending ennymoar time with what I consider to be a technicality of terms. Calling "the media", as a term itself, a generalisation is like saying a "pride of lions" is some gross glossover of a group of those big cats.

[Miktar]

I never said the media does not deliver bad news. I know it does.

But I refuse to blame the media, for the idiots that pay attention to the wrong outlets.

"Poekmons are satanic japanese devils" - Huisgenoot.

Education over Elimination

Besides - my whole point was against Garson's comments, and should be taken holistically in context of his post.

[Miktar]

I doubt I'll live to see the day, but I'd put my money on free speech being seen in the same vain as communism, on the evilness scale, somewhere in the future.

By that logic, perhaps I should remove your ability to post on these forums? What you're suggesting, is that only "certain" people should be allowed to voice their opinions.

I'd love to see you rational that one.

[Nandrew]

Besides - my whole point was against Garson's comments, and should be taken holistically in context of his post.

Fairy nuff. My speculation about syndicated news was ill-timed, it seems.

[Miktar]

Eh. I'm being a grouch, don't mind me. Garson's comments just irked me the wrong way, and I'm still riling at it.

[Nandrew]

Quite understandable, actually. Internets are great for blowing off steam anyways. ^5

[Garson007]

By that logic, perhaps I should remove your ability to post on these forums? What you're suggesting, is that only "certain" people should be allowed to voice their opinions.

I'd love to see you rational that one.
I won't be making the decision in classing the media, the "idiots" you so refer to will, due to widespread panic, and the last time I checked they were the majority. What's that line, "Actually the <insert person name here, this case the 'majority'> was the weakest link, but it's the votes that count. You are the weakest link. Goodbye"

I'm trying to list what I believe will happen and what I believe the majority will do when the media reveals something that might scare them. Like I said, I'm all for free speech and all, but people are just too damn stupid (stupid being relative term) to handle it. Of course, I'm striking a very bad balance here, in the way of "what now?" I don't know what now. I don't know what is better than free speech. I don't know where people will find their happiness in. I don't know how it is to live in anarchy. I don't know what it is to live in a totalitarian state. I don't know what it is like not knowing that crime is high. I don't...

Ultimately there is no "right" way of doing things in running a country, everything has its positives and negatives and each influences each individual differently and there is no way to satisfy all at the same time. My point being is that ultimately the one that satisfy the majority will win, not the right approach to you or me or Jesus Christ, but the one the majority finds bliss in.

Edit: If I came over as being extremist, I am sorry. It's not my attention to harbour any stance, other than simply viewing an opinion. I'm purely stating it like I see it, albeit ignorant, naive, or containing any other form of misperception. I'm here to have fun, not stir ****. All this did was make everyone, including myself, feel bad.

Edit, Edit: I never actually replied to the quote and no I never said that some should have the ability to speak while others do not. I never discussed the other side of the coin; I was purely breaking down the one side of the story.

In the end, ignorance still equals bliss to me.

[Miktar]

Ignorance may equal bliss, but it makes you useless to everyone and useless for anything.

[Garson007]

Ignorance may equal bliss, but it makes you useless to everyone and useless for anything.
No, I'd disagree, being happy is much more useful than all the knowledge can ever be.

[Miktar]

...

I have no idea what to say to you.

If you want to go live in ignorant bliss, go right ahead - but you will be unable to function in society or even maintain a job, or a relationship.

I refuse to believe even you could be so incredibly selfish, that you'd think ignorance is the ultimate way to deal with life.

Ignorance leads to death, cancer, aids, murder, rape, theft, disaster, catastrophe or worse.

But if you choose that for yourself, go ahead. But don't preach it here on the forums.

[Garson007]

You sound very black and white on this topic so I'll leave it there.

[PloPshoP]

Philosophy, it's b&w.

[.dB]

So.

Those petrol strikes eh?

[Miktar]

You sound very black and white on this topic so I'll leave it there.

No, you're the one who is black and white on it - I've been doing nothing but pointing out that this is a grey matter and should be taken in context for each and every case.

You: Ignorance > *
Me: Ignorance <> *

What you're suggesting is censorship of the media, I wonder if you even realize that.

[Garson007]

Quite honestly you misunderstood me if you feel that way about my argument for ignorance. Maybe I should have used the word moderation where I mentioned ignorance as indication, but I thought it was pretty much obvious that such philosophical terms are abstract by nature as one can never be fully ignorant and still be human, much like freedom cannot really exist or not exist. That said, I was being idealistic (and not realistic) and never considered the real world, much like I do with all arguments I ever have and if you have a problem with that, then don't write back.

All I was trying to point out was that a simpleton's life from 3000 years back is better than the lives we lead today, because of ignorance (again ignorance in such a way that is humanly possible). I know you love information/technology and all that stuff, but humanity would have been much better off without it. Never did I say it does not serve it's purpose, nor help the human species, I'm just pointing out that it detracts what I believe is the number one essential to all human beings, happiness. Neither you, nor anyone will change that opinion with me.

However getting back to the post that ticked you off in the first place (hereby pretty much making my defensive post obsolete, as I was rattled for having evoked emotional rebuttal, something the human and me can't quite handle in what seems to me as a harmless discussion). The last paragraph is what I foresee for the future, not what I want, but what I suspect will happen, due to it causing panic. I followed that up with a line stating the two paths where that will lead, our or its own undoing.

Firstly I was talking about society's undoing, with that I'm pretty much mean anarchy, reversal to tribalism etc. How do I come to that conclusion? The various media outlets will control the world, much like where it is heading today, causing governments to topple and chaos to ensue. This of course leads to that simpleton life I explained before hand, but in between that there will be a mass extinction of humanity as technology is lost.

Secondly I was talking about its own undoing. This is done by the Government getting itself involved by censoring the media, again because the media has gained too much power. Of course, we may be beyond that point where this is possible, although Zimbabwe might have done it, it won't be so easy in RSA.

Before that last paragraph I purely listed what I believe is common human truth.

My logic isn't flawless, and I accept that. I'm just trying to point out the things how I see them. For someone who so highly voice free speech, do try and not get overly concerned about mine.

[Miktar]

Fair enough.