Does religion have a negative afect on gaming?

[0blivios]

My entire life people have teased me about being a "geek" "nerd" or "dork" but recently i was deeply offended by a teacher at my school's husband who was giving us a lift to a hockey match.
I had made the mistake of taking the August 06 edition of NAG to school to do some back reading. The man saw the magazine and accused me of "reading devil books" and "worshiping Satan" WTF? . So i thought about this for a while and realized that he was a very religious man.and my teacher is a very religious women and she shares his view on gaming. maybe its just the people that live in my area but lots of people see gaming like this.if anyone else has had a simerler (aagh how do you spell that?) experience please tell me so i don't feel so alone

[someoneelse]

I was nearly expelled for wearing a shirt with a peace sign on it. How ironic is that?

[Miktar]

People are people. Bigots are bigots, and close-minded idiots are close-minded idiots. You'll always get people who accuse games, smurfs, barbie, teenage mutant ninja turtles or whatever of being "satanic". I saw the Pretoria police accuse people who play Starcraft of being "satanic". I also saw the ying-yang symbol identified by the police as "signs of satanic worship".

Basically, some people never stopped living in the Dark Ages.

Give them time - they'll die eventually.

Focus on trying to keep their children educated.

Btw: Affect and Effect are two different things.

[Azimuth]

I was nearly expelled for wearing a shirt with a peace sign on it. How ironic is that?

Oh, the broken, crooked cross spiel? *rolls eyes dramatically*

[Miktar]

Usually when you press such people who accuse games, TV, rock & roll or whatever of being "satanic" to explain why, they can't give you a good answer other than thumping their fist on their Bible and saying "Because it says so in here!". Of course, if you ask them to show you where, they won't be able to, or they'll misconstrue a passage.

Translation: Those people are frightened by things they do not understand. Take pity on them.

[someoneelse]

Oh, the broken, crooked cross spiel? *rolls eyes dramatically*


Yeah, except it wasnt a broken cross, it was a demons foot apparently. sigh

[Azimuth]

Hahahahahahahahahaha! That's so totally absurd!

[PerVert NexT Door]

It's people like that, that made me drop religion all together.

[Paradox]

One of my friends is a Wiccan, and we go to a Christian school, so we get this kind of thing often enough, but now they just don't bother us with it. I usually try to explain to a person why what we are doing isn't satanic or evil and what not with nice, calm reasoning. Doesn't work all that often on older people though, but younger people tend to listen to my side more. *shrugs*

[Hellius]

@0blivios. Don't worry about ignorant people man. I'm a christian and would say that quite into it, yet I play games and all the "evil" ones too. If a person is not affected by games like that then good for them , but if you are then I consider that person weakminded and would anyways have been affected by something or someone if it wasn't games.


One of my friends is a Wiccan, and we go to a Christian school, so we get this kind of thing often enough, but now they just don't bother us with it. I usually try to explain to a person why what we are doing isn't satanic or evil and what not with nice, calm reasoning. Doesn't work all that often on older people though, but younger people tend to listen to my side more. *shrugs*

That's fine, let him be a wiccan, but know that if he can do magic and stuff like that, that God is a lot more powerful than his magic.
And he'll go to hell (joking, but still think about it)

[someoneelse]

I'm sure he'll get over the whole wicca thing... it's usually a sign of rebellion, no offence to him. My girlfriend used to be into wicca long ago, but I slapped her silly and now shes cool :)

[Hellius]

My girlfriend used to be into wicca long ago, but I slapped her silly and now shes cool :)
Now that's the real christian way ;)

[0blivios]

wow so im not alone. I'm atheist in fact I'm the youngest atheist I know that has been brought up in a Christian family. and i was surprised that the kids at my school don't hate me for it (i go to a small farm/church school >.<). and my teacher doesn't exactly like me. theres another church school in our area, they held an iestedford (i don't have a clue how you spell that) and I'm the best artist in our school (we only go up to grd7). so i decided to enter some stuff in. my teacher said that my manga and anime where "cartoons" and that i should not enter them. so i drew some scary eye's and entered them in. Ironicly i got a worse mark then a kid that drew stick figure and gave them little bodies. even my teacher agreed that they deserved a higher mark. so i wonder if maybe people are just scared of different and dark things, it seems so

[Hellius]

Well, it's more like people have their own taste

[someoneelse]

wow so im not alone. I'm atheist in fact I'm the youngest atheist I know that has been brought up in a Christian family. and i was surprised that the kids at my school don't hate me for it (i go to a small farm/church school >.<). and my teacher doesn't exactly like me. theres another church school in our area, they held an iestedford (i don't have a clue how you spell that) and I'm the best artist in our school (we only go up to grd7). so i decided to enter some stuff in. my teacher said that my manga and anime where "cartoons" and that i should not enter them. so i drew some scary eye's and entered them in. Ironicly i got a worse mark then a kid that drew stick figure and gave them little bodies. even my teacher agreed that they deserved a higher mark. so i wonder if maybe people are just scared of different and dark things, it seems so

You're an athiest? How old are you? How old were you when you decided to be an Athiest?

It's not that people are scared of different and dark things... it's that people personally decide according to their beliefs and values whether something is right or not.

What is the point of enveloping yourself in dark, morbid situations... ??? It just leads to depression and a negative outlook on life

[R4mzy]

I shut my mouth and keep to myself and do my utmost to avoid religious conversation with anyone who I think may show the slightest sign of being one of those people who think their view = win and all others = fail.

[Hellius]

It's not that people are scared of different and dark things... it's that people personally decide according to their beliefs and values whether something is right or not.


That is a better explanation than mine

[PerVert NexT Door]

Surpisingly I know alot of Atheists. I personally have been an Atheist since I was 11

[Hellius]

Surpisingly I know alot of Atheists. I personally have been an Atheist since I was 11

Well that's like saying you have decided that your gay when you were 11. Your not experienced enough to make that conclusion about yourself. And you are probly an atheist because you know alot of them and have been influenced by them.

[0blivios]

well I'm 13, and I've properly been a atheist since I was 9 ,serious. and I'm not some depressed screwup. i just don't have any religious beliefs, is that so wrong?

[Etienne]

I had an experience like this when I was in high school. I played Magic: The Gathering during some of my breaks. One day, one of my friends dropped one of his cards and written on it was "The root of all evil" or something like that. A teacher saw this and called a couple of my friends in to see the headmaster. He gave them some speech about how evil it was and banned us all from ever playing it again.

Ironically, the card in question was some stupid "Land" card. :\

Anyway, this little saga had a huge impact on me. I'm a Christian, always have been. I couldn't understand why people would make so much fuss over a stupid card game. The only thing evil about Magic: The Gathering was how much money I spent on it :D

I just wish people would try to understand something before they judge. Or for that matter: Don't judge at all! Sure they can have an opinion on something, but saying something that they don't understand is "satanic" or "evil" , is wrong.

I've had these little experiences all my life. My favorite one is when I was still in primary school. The teacher asked us what our favorite TV show is. Everyone said "Beast Wars". The teacher said "Hmpf. Already sounds satanic." Well, jokes on him. Beast wars was a show about transformers that transformed in to animals.

Sigh.

TRY TO UNDERSTAND BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR BIG MOUTH!

[PerVert NexT Door]

Sorry multipost

[PerVert NexT Door]

Well that's like saying you have decided that your gay when you were 11. Your not experienced enough to make that conclusion about yourself. And you are probly an atheist because you know alot of them and have been influenced by them.

Actually not, I only decided to drop religion when I first moved to a catholic school and saw how they determined what was moral or immoral, ie homosexuality. I was also the only atheist I was aware of at the time.

P.S There are theories that state homosexuality may be predetermined . So homosexuality isn't really a choice.

[0blivios]

Well that's like saying you have decided that your gay when you were 11. Your not experienced enough to make that conclusion about yourself. And you are probly an atheist because you know alot of them and have been influenced by them.

Yes that may be true,and you properly developed deep religions beliefs because you where surrounded by Christians and does that meen that your parents should decide decide your religion for you? and so what if you discover that you are naturally attracted to members of the same sex when your eleven , at least you wont try hide it from the world because your afraid of not being accepted. and I knew enough about Christianity to know that i didn't believe in it ,so maybe one day ill become a Pagan or something.

[RedNax]

Actually not, I only decided to drop religion when I first moved to a catholic school and saw how they determined what was moral or immoral, ie homosexuality. I was also the only atheist I was aware of at the time.

P.S There are theories that state homosexuality may be predetermined . So homosexuality isn't really a choice.

lol. Many different churches exist now because they don't agree with stuff from the Roman Catholic Church. I've found some of it to be a lot different than actually depicted in the Bible (though I don't agree with homosexuality being OK but thats not a part of this topic. Moving on...). I'm pretty serious about my Christianity and I love playing swords and sorcery games (evil!) and fantasy (also evil!). (In case you didn't notice, I was sarcastic in brackets =P). Anything else, like Anime, for example, which is from a 'different' country, like Japan, is considered to be wrong by some people I know because the Japanese aren't all Christians. I'm pretty sure there are just as many Christians in Japan as in South Africa or any other country -_-

Anyway, back in Primary School I was crazy about Pokemon and man, was there stories about how evil that was. People also like looking at you funny when you talk of a game like Pharaoh and I tell them that I have to appease the god of the Nile =P

Our preacher always said that something is what you make of it. If you start using a Hello Kitty wristband in demonic summonings then that would be evil =P. I'm not running around telling people to bow to Osiris, god of the Nile! lol. It always makes me laugh when people tel me I'm dealing with devilish things when I'm busy playing games.

[MrDeVil_909]

well I'm 13, and I've properly been a atheist since I was 9 ,serious. and I'm not some depressed screwup. i just don't have any religious beliefs, is that so wrong?

Sounds like me at that age ;) not meaning to be patronising or anything. Went to a very religious primary school, got fed up when I was about 10 or 11. It seemed to be a case of all or nothing so I went 'Hey I'm an atheist'

When I was about 17 I discovered Wicca and Paganism and realised that it wasn't all or nothing after all. Paganism teaches you to find your own path so after a few years I got to where I am today which is a non-practicing (unfortunately) Discordian pagan.

Read the Principia Discordia (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/1.php), it's a riot.

[.dB]

The ying yang sign was super ev0l when I was in like Standard 1.

sign if the devil etc.

[Insomniac]

I think it's a case of when people don't understand something they feel left out and find peace in either insulting you(jock vs. geek scenario) or try to degrade the subject by calling it "evil."

[Hellius]

Yes that may be true,and you properly developed deep religions beliefs because you where surrounded by Christians and does that meen that your parents should decide decide your religion for you? and so what if you discover that you are naturally attracted to members of the same sex when your eleven , at least you wont try hide it from the world because your afraid of not being accepted. and I knew enough about Christianity to know that i didn't believe in it ,so maybe one day ill become a Pagan or something.

What is the point of living if there is nothing after this life? You can have a nice life and enjoy yourself and play games, but what is the point of it if it is going to end? And why become a pagan if you don't believe in Jesus? That doesn't make sense, you don't believe in God that is with you every day of your life, but will become a pagan that worships nature and stuff like that just because you can see it? All you have to do is reach out to God and He will reach out to you. He can't come in to your life if you don't open the door.

[Paradox]

When I was about 17 I discovered Wicca and Paganism and realised that it wasn't all or nothing after all. Paganism teaches you to find your own path so after a few years I got to where I am today which is a non-practicing (unfortunately) Discordian pagan.

Thats how my friend explains it to me. He isn't into the whole "magic" thing, but more the philosophy of Wicca as far as I know. Hell, he might just be a normal pagan, I have a hard time trying to determine the subsections of these (Same with christian sects, i.e. Catholics and Protestants)


That's fine, let him be a wiccan, but know that if he can do magic and stuff like that, that God is a lot more powerful than his magic.
And he'll go to hell (joking, but still think about it)

*The* reason I don't get into this type of conversation often. You have your beliefs, but as soon as you get on your "Moral high horse" you can bet the next time we talk I'll be carrying a some anti-cavalry weapons. Seriously. I'm agnostic, and I've really, *really* had enough of missionary bull from any religion of any kind.

Oh, and to the above post(Wow, same user), do some background checks on the actual religion before you start commenting, you are just showing your ignorance of that religion.

[Hellius]

Sounds like me at that age ;) not meaning to be patronising or anything. Went to a very religious primary school, got fed up when I was about 10 or 11. It seemed to be a case of all or nothing so I went 'Hey I'm an atheist'

When I was about 17 I discovered Wicca and Paganism and realised that it wasn't all or nothing after all. Paganism teaches you to find your own path so after a few years I got to where I am today which is a non-practicing (unfortunately) Discordian pagan.

Read the Principia Discordia (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/1.php), it's a riot.

You were in the wrong church, with christianity you can also choose how you want to worship God. You don't have to become a missionary or something to worship God, you just have to know that He is there and know that He loves you. You can worship God in anything that you do.
On another point I must say that you do get your extreme christians that force christianity down on you, wich is wrong, and pushes people farther away from God instead of letting them Him in their lives.

I'm actually quite a quiet person when it comes to descussions of God and religion on so on but, now I'm just going on and can't stop myself, it's wierd.

[Aesir]

When I was small I was was not allowed to play doom, carmageddon, ultima, duke nukem etc. as they were un-christian...

My parents were even sceptic in allowing me to read nag (the New-age) part as they saw it as some pagan gaming magazine. I never really blamed them I knew they were trying to protect me from the world. I think it's to blame on growing up in a different life style. Our parents grew up in the Old SA where moral values and dignity stood high(lol) they were all so innocent when they were young, I guess ignorancy is bliss after all.

@ Hellius

I know what you are trying to do, and I respect that, but do some research on other religions besides christianity before making rash satements about them .

[Hellius]

Oh, and to the above post(Wow, same user), do some background checks on the actual religion before you start commenting, you are just showing your ignorance of that religion.

Well thats what I've seen on tv. Is there something else involved? Are you saying that TV is wrong? Then the pagan people themselves are not telling the truth. And I know that wiccan people believe in good magic and so on. If information about wiccans and pagans doesn't fall in my lap them i'm not going to look for it.

[MrDeVil_909]

Wicca is a pretty specific sub-set and is a bit too ritualised for my tastes. It is actually also an initiatory tradition and there are, to my knowledge, no officially mandated Wiccan circles in SA, but that may have changed. Strictly speaking you can have Wiccan beliefs, but you can't just be a Wiccan unless your 'coven' is descended directly from that of Gerald Gardener. Stupidity IMO.

@ Hellius: I see where you are coming from, and respect your beliefs, but I think you may start ****ing people off pretty soon. Rather see someone a Pagan who believes in something, rather than an Atheist who believes in nothing and lives a life without hope. Either way they are doomed right? ;)

Spirituality is a mountain, religions are just paths to the top.

[Paradox]

Spirituality is a mountain, religions are just paths to the top.
So very true.


If information about wiccans and pagans doesn't fall in my lap them i'm not going to find out about it.

This, unfortunately, is the problem. Most people fear what they do not understand, and this creates a cycle which eventually makes one group ostracized. Not saying that you do, but you should tone down your preaching here just a little.


*Off-topic*
Oh, Etienne, do you still play? I had a similar problem in primary school, but started playing again recently. Best TCG ever IMO ^_^

[MrDeVil_909]

Well thats what I've seen on tv. Is there something else involved? Are you saying that TV is wrong? Then the pagan people themselves are not telling the truth. And I know that wiccan people believe in good magic and so on. If information about wiccans and pagans doesn't fall in my lap them i'm not going to look for it.

Find it right here --> Google (http://www.google.co.za/)

And a little less facetiously Google, paganism (http://www.google.co.za/search?source=ig&hl=en&q=paganism&btnG=Google+Search&meta=)

Knowledge is power, don't believe what you see on TV. The Craft and Charmed are not reference sources.

[Hellius]

[QUOTE=The_Prophet;7477]
This, unfortunately, is the problem. Most people fear what they do not understand, and this creates a cycle which eventually makes one group ostracized. Not saying that you do, but you should tone down your preaching here just a little.
[QUOTE]

Believe me, I don't "fear" pagans and magic and stuff. Christanity has enough demons and stananists to be afraid of, but I'm not even afraid of them, don't have to be.

[Hellius]

Knowledge is power, don't believe what you see on TV. The Craft and Charmed are not reference sources.

Lol, there was actually real SA pagans on tv that was talking about what they believe.

[Paradox]

Believe me, I don't "fear" pagans and magic and stuff. Christanity has enough demons and stananists to be afraid of, but I'm not even afraid of them, don't have to be.

K, coo'. But just don't get satanists and pagans mixed up is all. Because unfortunately that is what I have seen most people do.

[Hellius]

K, coo'. But just don't get satanists and pagans mixed up is all. Because unfortunately that is what I have seen most people do.

Ja, I know they are different. Knew it quite some time ago when I was interested in those things. But it just didn't attract me that much.

[MrDeVil_909]

K, coo'. But just don't get satanists and pagans mixed up is all. Because unfortunately that is what I have seen most people do.

Problem there is Jesus said 'He who is not with me is against me' so that is often interpreted to mean anyone who isn't Christian is by default a 'satanist.' Of course that also includes muslims/jews/hindus/buddhists/catholics/methodists or whatever isn't the particular church doing the proselytising.

Anyway gents it's been a fun chat, I'm off to bed. Don't start any flame wars while I'm gone. ;)

[PerVert NexT Door]

Sorry multipost again

[PerVert NexT Door]

Ja, I know they are different. Knew it quite some time ago when I was interested in those things. But it just didn't attract me that much.

Which is fine. It just irratates me when people tell you your life isn't worth living if you don't believe in god.

[Paradox]

Anyway gents it's been a fun chat, I'm off to bed. Don't start any flame wars while I'm gone. ;)

Good show old chap ;). But I was just about to prep the molotav ****tails and such, oh well, for another occasion then.

[Hellius]

Problem there is Jesus said 'He who is not with me is against me' so that is often interpreted to mean anyone who isn't Christian is by default a 'satanist.' Of course that also includes muslims/jews/hindus/buddhists/catholics/methodists or whatever isn't the particular church doing the proselytising.


Catholics and methodist is christian branches of the church btw. They just worship in a different way.

[Azimuth]

This discussion is going down the toilet.

Hellius, please respect other people's beliefs, and refrain from being preachy. Nobody likes an ad hoc evangelist.

[Hellius]

This discussion is going down the toilet.

Hellius, please respect other people's beliefs, and refrain from being preachy. Nobody likes an ad hoc evangelist.

I realise now that I was a bit extreme but I couldn't help myself.
I never said they were wrong :D

[Azimuth]

Uh, no.


What is the point of living if there is nothing after this life? You can have a nice life and enjoy yourself and play games, but what is the point of it if it is going to end? And why become a pagan if you don't believe in Jesus? That doesn't make sense, you don't believe in God that is with you every day of your life, but will become a pagan that worships nature and stuff like that just because you can see it? All you have to do is reach out to God and He will reach out to you. He can't come in to your life if you don't open the door.

This was very inappropriate. Nobody is asking for religious advice.

Anyway. Back to the topic, minions.

*cracks whip*

[cYn]

Before I attempt to spread Hellius horizons, I'll explain something intrinsic to these religions. They need to justify their existence. So they very often create boogey men. Monsters that they can use as proof of their over all purpose and message. If there was no tangible "evil" then they wouldn't have a reason to yell and complain and spew vitriolic ****e regarding rather inane mundane occurances.
In other words by pointing out the devil in things they're affirming the existence of a "God" and his laws. Creating a common enemy is a very old and effective method of bringing people together and getting them to do as you say. Ask Adolf Hitler who created a common enemy of the Jewish people or GW Bush and terrorism. Scare the crap out of people and offer them a solution to the horror you are making them aware of, they will eat out of your hands.

Hence arbitrary crap being pointed out as evil and perfectly innocent goings on being sullied and tainted by these modern day witch hunters. Hurray for mass hysteria.

Now, as for this:

Well that's like saying you have decided that your gay when you were 11. Your not experienced enough to make that conclusion about yourself. And you are probly(sic) an atheist because you know alot of them and have been influenced by them.

*sigh* You sir are ignorant and have your blinkers well fastened. how is it any different from children having religions chosen for and pushed onto them by adults and the people around them. Children are not religious their parents are. I agree with Richard Dawkins when he says that the religious indoctrination of children is akin to abuse. Children are designed to believe what they're told by parents and persons of authority. It's a survival mechanism which is yes, a product of evolution. It keeps kids from walking in front of traffic, poking animals with sticks and such. How can a child have developed it's own views and opinions on "the cosmos and our place in it"? They are not designed to question what they're told from an early age.

I'm not even going to touch on the gay child thing, that is an entire conversation on its own. But from your comparison, I can see that your ignorance isn't limited to religion.

As for you asking what people have to live for if they have no belief in an afterlife. Well. That is very telling, quite often tragic, and a touch pathetic. If more people lived for the now and not for the afterlife the world would be a far better place. With a lot more tolerance and lot less people spewing religious hatred, promoting religious genocide and bigotry. People wouldn't go around blowing themselves up if some manipulative coward (who would never "martyr" himself) didn't use promises of the afterlife, and a special martyrs heaven to manipulate naive and impressionable(probably not all to bright either) religious people. Don't try to tell me that I'm talking about a specific religion because the principle applies to all religions with fundamentalist leanings. Like the evangelicals. Paul Jennings Hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Jennings_Hill) for example.

Living for the afterlife gives people an excuse to not take responsibility for their lives. They leave it up to some supernatural force. The world is pretty ****ing amazing. There is a lot going on here. You don't need to make up some fantasy to make life worth living. Appreciate what you have around you it's taken us some 4.5 billion years to get this far.

Bottom line don't let some insecure religious group tell you what you can or can't play/wear/listen to/watch/shag in order to justify their own existence with Goebbelesque hoaxes. We can look after ourselves, think for ourselves and take responsibility for own actions. Intolerance causes far more hatred and damage than some obscure peace symbol on your shirt.


/edit
I don't normally debate religion, but this is rather specific. Also Atheists are the silent minority and are not very good at getting their side across. As compared to the very vocal religious groups. I'll have my say.

[PerVert NexT Door]

You took the words out of my mouth.

[PerVert NexT Door]

Anyways back on topic. Religion shouldn't have a negative affect on gaming. If wish to play games, play games. Don't be detered by people telling you what you are doing is wrong. Make up your own mind.

[Aesir]

Living for the afterlife gives people an excuse to not take responsibility for their lives. They leave it up to some supernatural force. The world is pretty ****ing amazing. There is a lot going on here. You don't need to make up some fantasy to make life worth living. Appreciate what you have around you it's taken us some 4.5 billion years to get this far.


I must object, dude really, christianity is a preparation for the afterlife, and to reach that you must prove your worth. You might disagree, but face it that is what it is you must face life head on doing all kinds of right things to enter heaven. Now you might say that you only have to believe, lol, I can kill innocent people and still believe in christ. Is that wrong then?

You have to take responsibility for your actions in most religions, Cyn, so moot point, imo.

[Hellius]

@cYn. Not every religion condones violent acts. What that Paul guy did is quite bad and it is probably things like that that puts you off from religion. That's too bad. There are still more criminals that isn't christian than there is that are christian.

To the topic finally. My parents also once long ago said that nag was a devil magizine. Because it was "new age". That was their reason.
Tha funniest thing I've read about evil games was in a reader's digest. It was about quake2. Qoute(to my memory) "He got home from school, said hi to his mom, and then the killing started". Me and my friend laughed our asses off.

[cYn]

I must object, dude really, christianity is a preparation for the afterlife, and to reach that you must prove your worth. You might disagree, but face it that is what it is you must face life head on doing all kinds of right things to enter heaven. Now you might say that you only have to believe, lol, I can kill innocent people and still believe in christ. Is that wrong then?

You have to take responsibility for your actions in most religions, Cyn, so moot point, imo.

Not really. there are enough examples in my post of how you can abide by your religious laws while still being destructive to the people around you. In other words you are doing what you think you should be doing to get to the after life of your choice, regardless of the destruction it leaves in its wake.

Besides which in Christianity, you only need to ask forgiveness if you have done things which break those laws and you will be forgiven. Just like that, clean slate. No consequences.

Nothing moot about it. Anyways I've said what I needed to say. Guild Wars is far more important to me than trying to get people to think for themselves. If you need to contact me I'll be killing Kirins in the Drazach Thicket. Otherwise if you want to read more the matter I suggest reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. Open yourself up to some opinions that come from people who are not dependent upon your belief in them to keep making money or to keep their institutions going.

[Aesir]

Not really. there are enough examples in my post of how you can abide by your religious laws while still being destructive to the people around you. In other words you are doing what you think you should be doing to get to the after life of your choice, regardless of the destruction it leaves in its wake.



Yes the catholics liked this excuse but not all versions of christianity, as do muslims(the terrorists ones) god does not condone bloodshed without reason, and if you think reason involves shooting some athiests then you are just as paranoid as some mentally disturbed pple I deal with. Like all "old" religions there are always some fanatics that will think that ridding the earth of the "non'-believers" is what they are meant to do, but god gave a choice to all pple.

wow I'm a pagan and I'm argueing with you, fun ain't it?

[Hellius]

Not really. there are enough examples in my post of how you can abide by your religious laws while still being destructive to the people around you. In other words you are doing what you think you should be doing to get to the after life of your choice, regardless of the destruction it leaves in its wake.

Besides which in Christianity, you only need to ask forgiveness if you have done things which break those laws and you will be forgiven. Just like that, clean slate. No consequences.

Nothing moot about it. Anyways I've said what I needed to say. Guild Wars is far more important to me than trying to get people to think for themselves. If you need to contact me I'll be killing Kirins in the Drazach Thicket. Otherwise if you want to read more the matter I suggest reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. Open yourself up to some opinions that come from people who are not dependent upon your belief in them to keep making money or to keep their institutions going.

Now that is just ignorant. You can't just do what you want and not have consequences and just ask for forgiveness. A person that commits sins and know what he is doing is wrong but still does it and then thinks that everything will be fine when he asks forgiveness is an idiot and shouldn't be tolerated.

[Azimuth]

None of this has anything to do with religion's impact on gaming.

GET BACK ON TOPIC.

[Hellius]

They started it. :D

[Aesir]

None of this has anything to do with religion's impact on gaming.

GET BACK ON TOPIC.

In a sense it does, if consequences dictate your actions?

@ Hellius

Your sounding more and more like an activist.

[Hellius]

In a sense it does, if consequences dictate your actions?

@ Hellius

Your sounding more and more like an activist.

Yeah lol. now i'm just adding so i can post

[dislekcia]

I'd love to see a game where you had to really think like someone else in another religion to get to the end of it... Think about the consequences: Levels where you had to take on a Hindu world-view, an evangelical Christian one, think like a Buddhist, imagine yourself a radical Muslim, wonder about life from the Shinto point of view, pretend to be a Zoroasteragenarian and finally, make up your own religion...

Personally I believe that religions are nothing more than memetic viruses that have evolved successful and often rather scary mechanisms of transferral. In terms of games I wonder how we could build similar viral game memes. Of course that's something the creator of a meme like that would have to come to terms with: Most viral memes like that end up being subverted and/or harnessed by greedy people.

And I reckon Hellius is a troll. Name's a bit of a giveaway.

-D

[wisp]

to get back on track,you can read signs into anything be it satanic /wiccan or christian and ppl tend to interperate things the way they want to.Take Doom plenty of satanic symbols their , did it convert ppl to Satanic worship, i don't think so . Gaming is gaming and religion is religion and i can't see how anyone can stop some gaming because of religion unless they are so insecure in there own belief that they see threats to there religion everywere?

Games are used as a scapegoat by those narrow minded ppl who are not open advances in technology and still want to burn Wiccans at the stake.

Blessed Be

[Chevron]

I started building my post as I was reading the thread. I see now that some of it echoes CYN's views, but I've decided to leave my post intact anyway.


What is the point of living if there is nothing after this life? You

can have a nice life and enjoy yourself and play games, but what is the point

of it if it is going to end?

There is no meaning to life. Just because we evolved consciousness doesn't

mean the is a meaning to life. In all religions the "afterlife" is just something

made up by some guy who was so scared of death he didn't want it to be the

end so he made it up so that he could feel better about himself. Actually that

guy probably just used it to get some form of power. Everyone is afraid of

death. If he had some faith were there is an afterlife people would follow him.

The universe is a massive place. Some people are so scared that they make

up religions so that aren't alone because there is someone that is

always there for them. Religion is for people who are weak(not

necessarily stupid) and insecure. Religion is for people who need to rely on others and

can't rely on themselves. Even if the *person* they rely on is a figment of

their imagination.


Rather see someone a Pagan who believes in

something, rather than an Atheist who believes in nothing and lives a life

without hope.

I'm an atheist and I have hope. I hope I will have a family one day. I hope I

will be able to provide for them. I hope SA won't embarrass itself in 2010 and I

hope that I'll get the friday before rage off.


Believe me, I don't "fear" pagans and magic and stuff.

Christanity has enough demons and stananists to be afraid of, but I'm not

even afraid of them, don't have to be.

The only reason Christanity has those "demons" is to try scare people into

following the religion.


Now you might say that you only have to believe, lol, I can kill innocent people and still believe in christ. Is that wrong then?


Remember the crusades by any chance? or maybe the Spanish inquisition?

To get back on topic. Religion is having a negative effect on games. People blame games when kids get violent and the parents are too afraid to admit that they were kak parents. The only people who get violent playing computer games are the people who are already violent. Games actually actually help me let off steam. Smacking someone around in game is by far more preferable than smacking someone around in real life.

[Azimuth]

Oh, for ****'s sake. Chevron, saying "Religion is for people who are weak(not
necessarily stupid) and insecure." is insulting.

STOP DERAILING THIS THREAD WITH IRRELEVANT COMMENTARY. YOU ARE ONLY FURTHERING AN IRRELEVANT DISCUSSION.

Until people around here can discuss religion intelligently, I suggest everyone abandon the topic.

[echo]

I think it sometimes ads to the whole game experience: For instance, I'm a christian and believe that satan exists. When I played Doom 3 I recognized some things I've learned about Satanism over the years and so my religion actually made the game more relevant to me: fighting demons etc. And thats about it.

And a little off topic: Religion doesn't effect gaming, it is ignorant people's views that do.

[Chevron]

Oh, for ****'s sake. Chevron, saying "Religion is for people who are weak(not
necessarily stupid) and insecure." is insulting.


So what if it's insulting? It's true. Some people can't think for themselves and need others to tell them how to live and where they came from.

People who know how to think for themselves won't follow something blindly just because everyone else does it.

People follow religions to bring structure and meaning to their unstructured lives. As a side effect they die with a smile on their face because someone said "heaven is waiting for you".

BTW this discussion hasn't been a flame war and probably the only intelligent discussion of religion I've seen on the nag forums.

[Azimuth]

You have an extraordinarily narrow and simplistic view of religion, Chevron. And no, I'm not religious. But I know enough about religion to make informed and intelligent commentary. Ever stopped to consider, for example, religious scientists? Imagine what a struggle it must be to maintain religious and spiritual belief in the face of logic and empiricism. I'd call that neither weak nor insecure, but a feat of overwhelming faith and strength of mind of which not even I am capable.

And if this is the most intelligent discussion you've seen on the NAG forums, you've not read enough.

And from here on out:

Does religion have a negative effect on gaming? Discuss.

If you want to start a discussion about religion in general, start one in the appropriate place.

[Gallagher]

0blivios started this thread to get empathy from other posts due to his bad experience, but obviously a thread like this will lead to a HUGE debate... :-(
(Although, peeps like debates for some reason)

There is so many posts here of people saying stuff like "Religion is for people who are weak" and just nasty stuff. If this is not helping anyone or having a positive effect like what it was suppose to then what is the flippin point... :(

It just makes me sad to heard that people leave their religion because of what other people say and do because other people don't always say the right thing.

If a Christian says he's a Christian and posts a swear word. It portrays the wrong image and he'll take responsibility for that. Priests are being associated with molestation, which gives a bad image about Christianity because of one or two priests that made a mistake like we all do. Stop stereotyping religion and take the splinter out of your own eye first.

I strongly agree that people see games in the wrong way, especially older people, but that is anyway changing quickly if you think that games only started 50 years ago and that over a couple of years, everyone, would have been born in a computer world...

From a Christian point of view: If you have a relationship with Jesus, then you wouldn't want to open doors that could be left closed. Personally, I have finished Diablo 1 & 2 too many times for my own health. :-)

My 2 cents

[Squirly]

I'll give it a try... :)

Like someone else has already mentioned, our parents grew up in a different time. A lot of them were around during the Reagan administrations religious campaign on the white house. Say what you want, but Reagan knew who to appease and apart from the "Just say NO!" campaign he was very much a Christian, promoting christian values and, sadly, spreading some ugly propaganda - because in the end that's all you can call it. Fact - half the stuff declared as satanic during the 80s had nothing to do with satan. Dungeons and Dragons, games, music - if it included a symbol somewhere which had been declared satanic by the church (back in the 1600s) they'd call it satanic. The pentagram, used copiously by christians themselves at one point. A skull (don't ask), the number 8 (infinity, see), the number 0 (same) and we can go on.

I went to a camp during grade 9, which turned out to be run by two hard-core Christians. 1 week of preaching, self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude. I'd really like to say that these guys were actually nice and they just wanted the best for us - but even if that's the case - their way of forcing their (at times) ridiculous views on us really built up more resentment than anything else. I already mentioned the evil symbols which they felt we needed to know about. They took out a whole book, filled front to back, about a 150 pages worth, with symbols that were satanic. And I don't mean just the obvious stuff like a goats head or whatever - a skull, a number, the peace sign - in my eyes just paranoia, a need to have an enemy or to point at something and say: "That's evil, and I'm better than that." Forget reasoning or logic or just finding out for yourself - once it's been decreed it's like it's set in stone.

My mom approached me with these things as well. When she saw me getting interested in heavy music and games and then NAG had Nox on the cover which looked positively ghastly and well... let's just say I sat down with my mom and explained things to her. I explained that satan had nothing to do with this. I went into certain games that I'd played, explained story and setting, gameplay and so on. I was open about what I enjoyed and why I enjoyed it. She could see I was honest and let me do my thing - which is not to say she let me run wild, but she dropped the "satan" bit.

[Chevron]

Personally, I have finished Diablo 1 & 2 too many times for my own health. :-)


I think those people that say Diablo the game is evil don't realize that the whole point of the game is to confront the devil and slay him.

[Gallagher]

I think those people that say Diablo the game is evil don't realize that the whole point of the game is to confront the devil and slay him.

:-) That is my reason as well, parents telling kids not to play this because of the pentagram etc. is wrong for me, because it "builds resentment" towards Christianity; like I can see in a lot of posts here. But for me personally I just don't play that anymore.

[Fredder]

the only way religion must influence gaming is as follows:
- If the game contains religious contents or deals with religious topics, the ratings board must include this in the age rating for that game, just like the programs on tv and movies.
- If a game offends your religion, then don't play it. That way you can rest assured that your faith remains strong. the same goes for that confused feeling you get if you feel what you are doing is not right, offensive/blasphemising game = don't play it.
- However if you do play it. Do it with a semi-open mind, it is just a GAME(open), keep your principles intact(semi-), if you get the above mentioned feeling, you know what to do . . .
- If you know that you are easily influenced by some topics/games that might trigger your aggression and make you want to kill people,seek some help cuz your problems lie much deeper than gaming.
- Games are like interactive books to me, so fiction remains fiction.
- Lastly, game developers must just keep in mind the relativity and weight of the situation if they want to create a game with a religious theme, if they are careful and stipulate the content specifically, people can make a better choice. You can't reject the influence of religion on society and therefor must bear the weight if you are going to touch the sensitive religious nerves.

Off-Topic: I am a Christian and proud to say it . . .

[Gallagher]

WOW... Thank You Fredder!

[Ruandre]

Does religion have a negative effect on gaming? Well, not really (and that's a good thing!)

I know people who refuse to play games such as Quake 3 because they believe it's evil (pentagrams *gasp*). I doubt it has a massive effect on sales though, or the industry in general for that matter.

Whenever I read about things such as people almost getting expelled over something as trivial as a peace symbol or “the headmaster” banning Magic: The Gathering, I always get fired-up. Students (or their parents, rather) PAY the school for a service, education. In specific subjects, mind you (NOT religion, leave that to the bloody churches). Religion has absolutely no place in public schools! Law and government should be kept secular. After all, religion is a personal thing and should be treated as such. To ensure fairness and prevent discrimination, religion should have as little as possible worldly/physical power. Believe whatever you want, as long as it doesn't affect others. I'm a Christian and in my opinion, 90&#37; of all Christians give the other 10% a really bad name, shame on you!

Anyhow, rants aside, we can only hope (and pray) that people will stop exploiting religion for personal gain and live in harmony despite their differences.

[Gallagher]

NOT religion, leave that to the bloody churches


I'm a Christian

Doesn't make sense to me... :-/

[ioiiooio]

Ooh gosh, I cant resist any longer, it's a little off topic n all.

Why is it that books like Harry Potter are "evil" yet books like Lord Of The Rings or The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe are ok? I realise the two latter examples have Christian undertones, but they still contain occultic symbols and characters, and Harry Potter is also about good vs. evil.

Anyways sorry bout that, just food for thought I guess.

[Ruandre]

I'd really like to say that these guys were actually nice and they just wanted the best for us - but even if that's the case - their way of forcing their (at times) ridiculous views on us really built up more resentment than anything else.That's exactly why I don't go to church; it's filled with pretentious sheep that can't fathom the possibility that God might want us to think for ourselves every now and then.


Doesn't make sense to me... :-/See above.

[Azimuth]

CS Lewis was Christian, and the Narnia books are nothing so much as Christian allegory.

Tolkien's epic championed the meek, who ultimately triumph over evil. That's a strong Christian theme.

There are no occult elements in either work.

Harry Potter and his pals make overt (and often casual) use of magic spells. Many fundamentalist Christians equate this with sorcery or necromancy or whatever - in other words, expressly forbidden activities.

[Miktar]

This thread has outlived its usefulness.

To everyone involved who came in here to be evangelical - I'm warning you officially.

Have your faith, but keep it to yourself. I don't care if you worship God, Satan or the Cat Next Door - but don't you dare come preach here, I won't stand for it.

This could have been a good discussion, but several people had to go and make it personal, or use it as a platform to attack others or to punt their faith.

Faith is not to be used as a high horse from which to spew moral ambiguities - I'm pretty sure "God" won't be to happy with you for using it as such.

This thread is now locked.

If people wish to continue the discussion on topic, please create another thread for it and clearly stipulate the rules of discussion.