S.A rocks. -_-

[Sir)Kickasselot]

I heard this afternoon on the news a government official has been implicated in a condom scandal. The official received money under the table for allowing defected condoms to be to passed on to the public, apparently up to six million condoms could be affected.

That?s just awesome!, nice to know our public servant?s really care.:/

[Miktar]

Corrupt government official, you say? Surely you jest! Quick, let's move to a country that doesn't have corrupt government officials!

Wait...

(On a more serious note: That's really terrible, actually. Of course, he'll probably dodge jailtime too...)

[Sir)Kickasselot]

Just another über day in africa......
Seriously,I don't think that would happen anywhere else.

[Miktar]

Sir)Kickasselot, that's an incorrect assumption. I can assure you, that no matter where you go in the world, you will read news of equal sadness.

[ShadowMaster]

@Miktar: I just thinks it happens a lot more frequently in Africa than anywhere else.

[Miktar]

@ShadowMaster: No, you just think it does, because you're more prone to hear about local news, than about what's happening in the State of Ohio.

[Bke]

All the more reason why gamers should rule the world... And your right miktar he probably wont get jail time, hell they might give him a new liver just for his effort

[cYn]

They should give him jail time, but reassure him that he'll have access to said faulty condoms while in prison.

[Aesir]

I heard this afternoon on the news a government official has been implicated in a condom scandal. The official received money under the table for allowing defected condoms to be to passed on to the public, apparently up to six million condoms could be affected.

Who cares about condoms? Just remember to shower afterwards. :P
Like that Civ 3 joke I heard from 1000 Clues you've been playing Civilization 3 too much... "
You actually think democracy reduces corruption" lol

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/clues1000.php

Seriously does anything surprise you anymore?

@ Shadow Master, unless you have media(newspaper etc) from all the countries in the world that is a rather silly thing to say, and I'm sure these things are more commonplace in Zim than in SA. :/

[Antharias]

Okay. One country that is just as bad, if not worse, is the Phillipines. Their corruption is a joke over there. we are mild compared to them :\

[Garson007]

If you guys have access to news networks beyond that of our own I'd urge you to at least sit and watch/read them ever so often for at least a month. BBC, CNN, SKY NEWS, etc.

[MrDeVil_909]

Corruption is everywhere. If there are people with money and people with power, there will exist a market to trade the two. Simple as that.

In South Africa we are lucky(-ish) in that we have an extremely free and vocal press that won't hesitate to shout from the rooftops, as well as somewhat clumsy politicians who get caught handling money themselves. They've obviously never heard of deniability.

Well, the press is free until Friday, then we will see.

[Sir)Kickasselot]

"Corruption in nearly half the world's nations is not getting much better and, indeed, in many countries is intensifying--affecting virtually every aspect of life among peoples on every continent.

While a year ago, some 72 out of 158 nations surveyed by the international watchdog group Transparency International were classified as "corrupt," now 74 of 163 countries fall into the same category. A few, most notably India, managed to bootstrap themselves (just barely) out of the truly corrupt group, while others, particularly Iran, dug themselves more firmly into that camp.

TI has developed an index from 0 to 10 comprised of surveys of specialists, opinion leaders, business officials and human rights monitors who live, work or travel extensively in each of the countries ranked. The higher the score, the less corrupt the country. Tied for No. 1 this year, with a CPI “score” of 9.6 are Finland, Iceland and New Zealand. At the bottom, with a score of 1.8 is Haiti.

In Pictures: Most Corrupt Nations
Clearly, as those who monitor the ebb and flow of corruption around the world confess, the rankings are heavily subjective, and the nature of the corruption, particularly in the most severely corrupt nations, can differ markedly. But all share one particular characteristic. "You are dealing with societies where corruption filters into everyday life," says Laurence ****roft, a senior TI official. "Most of us don't experience [it] in our daily life. My guess is that when the TI Index drops below 5, certainly below 3, you get into a different kind of territory."

Below 5, you have 119 countries out of 163, including such nations as Italy, Greece, South Africa, Brazil and China. Below 3 on the TI scale, some 47 nations drop off, though many are very close to the line."
http://www.forbes.com/home/2007/04/03/corruption-countries-nations-biz-07caphosp-cx_da_0403corrupt.html

While you will get corruption everywhere as you said Miktar,it is allot more freuquent in S.A then in most other countries.
Edited because the link didn't work.

[ShadowMaster]

@ Shadow Master, unless you have media(newspaper etc) from all the countries in the world that is a rather silly thing to say, and I'm sure these things are more commonplace in Zim than in SA. :/

Sorry, my bad.

But still it would be nice if we were more strict about it, like actually firing the bastards and sending them to jail for a sufficient amount of time.

[dangarratt]

I'm afraid I disagree with you there Sir)kickassalot, and I agree with Miktar, et al. It is a *good* thing that we hear about corruption in government, as that means it is being exposed.
I wonder what the TI would have said about Apartheid SA. No reported corruption in government or business at all.....
I am extremely proud to live in a country where the press is not afraid to take on government ministers, where minsters have actually gone to jail for fraud (where else in the world has *that* happened), where the DEPUTY PRESIDENT was fired for allegations of fraud! I mean, come on! In the UK, for example, this kind of thing just politely blows over, with a quiet resignation or two.
Hooray for SA!
(remember the grass is only greener on the other side 'cos they got more manure....)

[Sir)Kickasselot]

Prevention is better than cure .Yes, it's great that some of these offenders have been prosecuted ,but that is not good enough. Fraud shouldn't be happening at the alarming rate that it is currently .It may well be that in the UK this would be swept under the carpet, but it's allot easier to do that when it doesn't happen every single day.

[kHayne]

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Home/0,,2-7,00.html

vs

http://www.cnn.com/US/

[Miktar]

Sir)Kickasselot, in a perfect world, yes - fraud, corruption and such should not be happening as commonly as it does, and it certainly shouldn't be happening here in South Africa.

But it does, because you get people who are selfish, people who are greedy and people who are dishonest, and such people are often found in extreme positions of power.

There is no way to prevent this type of fraud and corruption - you can only do your best, and hope for the best. Or, you could try and devise a system better than Democracy, which while sufficient for now, is obviously a very flawed system and shouldn't be considered the "best".

It sucks to find out about rape, murder, corruption, death, theft and so fourth - but at least our media is not biased; in fact, our media is regarded as one of the most tenacious and free in the world. Our media does not lean towards the government at all, and what our government does is kept under close scrutiny by our media.

I'm rather proud of South African media, truth be told.

Yes, there is a lot of bad stuff happening, but at least we know about it.

You say: "It may well be that in the UK this would be swept under the carpet, but it's allot easier to do that when it doesn't happen every single day."

You're assuming it doesn't happen every day - perhaps because it's being swept under the carpet?

@kHayne: Nail on the head.

[Sir)Kickasselot]

I agree that the media is doing a great job,but I do not agree that there is no way to stop corruption.It might not be possible to totoaly eradicate it,but it can be greatly decreased.Miktar,as you said yourself,this guy probably won't even get jailtime.It's way to easy to be corrupt in S.A,because you know you can get away with it.Even if don't you will get off easy.As soon as goverment stops it's "slapgat"attitude against crimes like corruption,and actually enforce the laws we have,S.A might become a better and safer place to live in.

[DaBaish]

Hey! Who wouldn't love to live in a country with freedom of speech? You can always go to a...
damn, I suck at politicial affairs. Well, I guess it'll be called a non-democratic country...right?
I suppose there you get shot for just saying one wrong thing about the wrong person, right?

and for my say, I think everything is as it should be...if it were any different, it would've. Things are going steady with politics.

[Miktar]

I agree that the media is doing a great job,but I do not agree that there is no way to stop corruption.It might not be possible to totoaly eradicate it,but it can be greatly decreased.Miktar,as you said yourself,this guy probably won't even get jailtime.It's way to easy to be corrupt in S.A,because you know you can get away with it.Even if don't you will get off easy.As soon as goverment stops it's "slapgat"attitude against crimes like corruption,and actually enforce the laws we have,S.A might become a better and safer place to live in.

My point is: Government IS corrupt by default. How would the government stop it's "slapgat" attitude, if it's in their favour to be that way?

What I'm saying is - when something like this is broken, it is broken. Only serious reforms would change it, and that relies on civil uprising.

[Sir)Kickasselot]

Goverment as a whole is not corrupt,it's unfair to say that,there are many, very honest goverment officials.it's a small percentage of them that are rotten.The rest,who are actually honest,but just to lazy to stop the corrupt bastards,should get of their arses and start making sure law gets enforced.

[Miktar]

Oh, so the "good" guys are just lazy.
Doesn't that make them as bad as the "bad" guys?

Look, I agree with you - but you're just saying what everyone is saying: pie in the sky idealism. :P

[Rabs]

Well I can asure you all that corruption is as rife here (the UK) as it is anywhere else in the world if not more... The more annoying thing about it is that these things happen all of the time yet most of the time it does get swept under the carpet, you may hear about it one day and then by the next week its forgotten again.

Recently there was a big scandle to do with the bosses of the people who are meant to be repairing and upgrading the underground system and we are talking money in the billions here.. Yet over the last few years there are reports of workers sitting around doing nothing for days on end, poor maintence of day to day running of the work (recently there was a massive underground train crash just because someone left some sheet plastic somewhere) and it was only after 10 years that these people were discovered and billions have been lost.

We have councils that spend money contracting things like people to change lightbulbs and getting paid more than nurses do to do that job. Usually this happens because the person who makes the decision to spend the money have companies set up so they can get the profit.

And the worst thing is we have millions of people who live off the doll and get housing benifit, child benifit, dont have to pay any taxes and yet these people havecars, computers and everything most of us who work for a living do.. We now have generations of families doing this and getting away with it. And us hard workers have to pay for them to do nothing.

Actuall there was a program on TV last night that was about a guy who is on the doll and has 17 kids.. and his benifits work out to £38,000 a year... Its sick really..

So believe, we have just as many issues over here as anywhere else.. And I think its capitalism and globalisation to blame.. PEople can do what they want as long as they stick to the letter of the law no matter how morraly wrong it may be.. Thats what the government and big companies do and is now being passed down to everyday people. You should see the attitude of people on the underground, its so bad.. Most people wont get up for a pregnant woman or an older person and theres alot of people who would punch or stab you just for looking at them.

I am a bron and bred londoner and I no longer recognise this place as my home.. Very sad.

At least you guys have amazing food, great weather and spcae... Treasure these things they are important.

[Aesir]

At least you guys have amazing food, great weather and spcae... Treasure these things they are important.

Nice, it's good to hear from another that we are not that bad compared to everyone else.

2 things...

1. Is your food bad, or worse than ours?

2. I HATE the weather in SA, it's like being in a sauna 24/7.

[Rabs]

Hey Unknown Soldier

1. Yes the food here is really bad, all mass produced rubbish. You can find good food but its hard to come by. You guys have some of the best food in the world there.

2. The weather.. Well I guess it depends on what you like. (and where you live in SA). I personaly HATE the weather here, not because of the rain or the temperature, but the constantgrey dullness just makes you depressed.... And I mean it can be grey for months at a time and even if its just the physical need for sunlight (produces vitiman d or something) makes you unhappy.

In saying that I know a few saffers living here who love the weather cos they are just fed up being hot all the time..

And also realise that we are meant to be in mid summer here and its grey, windy and raining (and the temp is like 13degrees)

Which needless to say sucks.

But the main issue for me is that we have 60 million people over here on the smallest island and where ever you go and what ever you do theres no escaping them. I long for some space....

[Aesir]

Hmm thats maybe the reason for so many British food programs. :P
Yes the weather is a personal thing, I don't like the sun but I don't mind it either as long as it stays in check. The 2million degrees makes me very lethargic. Especially at uni if you have to get back into your car. uughh. On my Grade 10 camp we had to climb a mountain thingy, at 8am it was 42 degrees that is just plain unfair.

But thanks for the reply it's nice to hear another opinion. :)

[Sir)Kickasselot]

Wow,Rabs,you make London sound really horrible.I have never been there,and now I think I won't ever go,but inspite of all those things,England manages to be better that S.A in just about every political ,financial,and social aspect.

[Azimuth]

Um. I'm on holiday in London at the moment (second time this year), and I love the place, everything about it. Can't get enough of it. My sister has been here a year already, and loves it too.

Not to sound gauche, but I think that a little money makes London a far better place to be.

[Rabs]

Yes Azimuth your right.. If you have the money London can be an amazing place... And can be an amazing place to visit as we do have great culture and if you are into the arts its all here for the taking... Also it helps if you are younger, I am 33 now and have seen all the sites, been to more gigs that I can remember and seen what there is.. But I think if you are doing well in SA you are doing very well, but if you are doing well in London, in realiy you are just doing ok..

However London is now the most expensive place to live on the planet. And as I said earlier theres so many people here that nothing is special as evrything is catered for the masses and it makes everything average.

Sure if you want to live in the countryside and can find work that will support you out there, life here can be great. But for most of us we end up just living an exsistance. Theres so much traffic at evenings and weekends that it doesnt make trraveling around worth it and you end up just working coming home eating sleeping and then working again. We dont have the outdoor lifestyles that you guys have and it gets very claustrofobic here.

I have also used the underground more than anyone should ever have to in one lifetime. Its a hard thing to describe, but using it every day effects you in a bad way. You become intolerent of people cos they are nearly all selfish and will push you out of the way in a heartbeat if it means getting a seat. I have even seen pregnant women pushed out of the way, and I dont exaggerate.

The thing with life here is on paper looks good, but in reality we are taxed so much and living is so expensive 80% of the poeple here are in massivedebt and its a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.

Also realise that the youth in this country are terrible. Just two days ago an 11 years old kid was shot on his bike by some other kids. Now im not a small guy and can handle myself, but even I think twice before messing with a group of kids.. and im talking 11-17 year olds.. they are scary cos they could easily all have knifes and these days possibly a gun and if you do beat the crap out of them what happens? You get arrested and taken to jail for punching a kid, no matter what they were doing. Its an awful situation to be in. Another thing is is litecery rates have fallen year after year and now the UK has the worst rates in white male boys than anywhere in europe.. Seriously its getting bad here. The three things we were know worldwide for being good at were Health, Education and Transport and they are al slowly falling apart.

Im looking for a more relaxed lifestyle where I have space, good food and the sky is usually blue.. AndI think I will get that over here.

I guess its all down to induvidual taste, I know plenty of people who like living in London but more that dont. And the same could be said for SA I know many people who slag the country off and many people who say its the best place in the world to be.. :o

[Azimuth]

Uh. One of the things I love most about London is that it's safe for me to go walking around by myself. Even in the evenings. I wouldn't do so back home. In South Africa, I seldom leave my home. I'm simply too scared to. Maybe it's because I'm a woman, and the rape statistics in SA are so horrifying, but there you have it.

I do hope you don't have a 'greener grass' vision for your life in South Africa, because you'll be sorely disappointed.

[Rabs]

No, I dont... My wife is South African and I have been there a few times in the last couple of years so i have a good idea what to expect.

I know that I am swapping one set of problems for another and I know it will be hard to set ourselfs up.. But I need more space desperatly and thats one thing you cant say about London there is no space.

And my Wife just came back from SA she says that she felt completely safe and drove through the center of Joburg several times, spent time in Durban aswell and she said not at one point did she ever feel threatned.

I know that there are real statistics about rape and muggings and I in no way mean to bellittle it.. But I do agree to a point that alot of the problem is the fear of crime itself and its down to your attitude and how you walk around.. Its the same in Lonodn, there are certain places you just would not walk at night..

But either way I guess i will find out for myself..

But thanks for the comments anyway, I do want to hear what people think... To be forewarned is to be forearmed.. :o

[ioiiooio]

But thanks for the comments anyway, I do want to hear what people think... To be forewarned is to be forearmed.. :o

^ So true



Anyways just had to share this breaking news:

It has just been announced that the name of the Johannesburg General Hospital will be changed.
From 1 September 2007 it will officially be known as the Manto Tshabalala-Msimang Pub & Grill

[Hutch]

^ So true



Anyways just had to share this breaking news:

It has just been announced that the name of the Johannesburg General Hospital will be changed.
From 1 September 2007 it will officially be known as the Manto Tshabalala-Msimang Pub & Grill


hahahahah Manto, sigh

England is falling apart. I'm sitting watching it happen from outside my window.

The man isn't making a mountain out of any mole hill when it comes to the issues he raises.

But even as it crumbles. It is an insanely easy place to make a living and find a disposable income. Highly skilled or not.

I wish you the best of luck. You sure as hell will need it.

[.dB]

I got mugged in London by some chav when I was there two years back, was in a nice area and daylight to boot. At least it was a break from the SA style of mugging though - "Oi, bruv".

epiclol.

[Oeaks]

London, as far as I'm concerned, Is great. Everything I like is avalible there. My dad said It a terrible place to grow up, but great to move to.

But no place in the world is truly safe, you could get mugged or whatever anywhere really.

[dangarratt]

LONDON - great to visit, horrible to live. The three hundredth day when you get off the Underground after having unwashed (Brits do not wash everyday) armpits waved near your nose for about an hour and you blow your nose only to find your snot is BLACK is the day you realise that the two week holiday you had in London those few years back did not *actually* give you a good taste of London......
They do have some good churches though (I mean as congregations of people, not as bricks-and-mortar) which is the only reason my wife and I chose London rather than a few other places in Europe.

By the way, looking at trends in, say, UK and SA - UK is heading downhill socially (just meet a couple of the teens there, and you'll know what I mean) - whereas there is a vibrancy and energy about SA to uplift and improve. I fully believe that our children's children will be hankering after ancestral visas for SA.....

[Rabs]

Man dangarratt your so right...

If theres one single thing that I woud say stands out the most of all the issues we have over here is the kids.. My wife always tells me in SA ifyou say, see a kid throw some litter on the ground and you confront them about it they will usually actually listen and be embarrased about it.. Over here if you say anything you have at least a 50/50 chance of getting stabbed.

We have the highestrate of teenage pregenancies in Europe, and the education is going down hill year by year...You just have to hear the kids talk and you would understand its just unbelieveable... The latest craze on th underground for the kids is to play music from their phones on the loudspeakers of the handsets.. it just makes you so mad.. and they reallyget in your face with it aswell.. I usually end up sayig something.. but sometimes I dont cos it just doesnt seem worth it.. And the average person is scared most of the time.. Its no way to live.. And they make out like everything is ok.. Just check the BBC news web site and you will see what I mean.

We have kids shooting and stabbingeach other, now seems to be happening several times a week. Council estates where even the police wont dare to go as they are so bad.. And well I could go on, but know that this just scratches the surfaceof the problems we have here...

[GeometriX]

London is a funny place - it can do weird and wonderful things to a person. I know a lot of people who have lived and still do live in London, as well as out in the English countryside, and they all have a different perspective of London living. The oddest perspective is that of my uncle, who has lived in London for about 20 years, is married, and has two kids (aged 12 and 14). Now, this uncle of mine used to live in SA, and has come back many times for a visit, so it's not like he's entirely out of touch with things down here (both good and bad).

Here's where it gets odd; About 4 years ago - he contracted a terminal lung disease, and the docs gave him about 6 months to live. The main contributing factor in the disease? Air pollution (he's a non-smoker, and had many 2nd-opinions to back this up). It seems that all the iron and junk down in the tubes can cause some serious problems with people's respiratory systems, but that's nothing new. Anyway, to cut a long story short, my uncle manages to score himself a lung transplant, and is still alive today, albeit with more health complications than anyone would care to even think about. However, the strangest thing of it all - he's still living in London. Not in the outer zones, but near Finsbury Park - a stone's-throw away from the mob-ridden homeground of Arsenal.

So - the big question: Why the hell does he stay? It's not a money thing, for those that may think so, he owns an architectural firm, and has it managed entirely for him, to the point where he barely has to make an appearance at work once a week. I cannot figure it out. He claims the schools are good, and life is happy and fluffy, and the problems of London are far outweighed by the good stuff. But to be on the knife-edge of death's door for the last 4 years - caused by living where you live - and still want to stay, there must be something else there.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's some magic in the London air. There's just something about being there, and I think it's what draws holiday-makers in, and keeps them there for much longer than they originally planned (my brother is a prime example of this). Maybe it's the "legend" of London, maybe it's the history, maybe it's many people's lineage that pulls them back to their roots. Who knows. All I know, is that I plan on moving there in the next few years. Maybe not forever, but there has to be something more than smog and teen gangsters to hold (and bring) millions and millions of people there for so long.

[dangarratt]

There is an attraction about the centre of London - the history. The feel of the place is just awesome. And it's very green and pretty. I could survive London if I lived in the City itself! ;) Of course, if I could afford THAT, then I could afford a mansion in Constantia!
But the main attraction is the MONEY. People follow and stay for the pound - they also stay because they're too busy to actually leave - AND because they've spent all the money they should have been saving!

[Rabs]

Again Dangarratt, I think you hit the nail on the head... Its the money...

Thats why alot of poeple I know not only come from outside but from within the UK aswell... We have them all, scottosh, irish, welsh, macunians, liverpudluians, geordies.. they all come for the money.. But as you say the problem is that you are too busy or tired to do anything most of the tme.. Plus as I said earlier the expense of living in London means that MOST people dont really have a very good quality of life at all... But if you do have th emoney London can be very comfortable...

And its not all bad in London of course.. But living here day to day it just gets to you a bit moe each day,.. The buildings and history of the place is amazing and as bad as the underground is, its still one of the easiest and best transport systems in the world... We have amazing museums and exibitions going on all of the time. a huge number of gigs going on every night and of course we have those guards outside the palace who wear those big fluffy hats.. :o

Personaly I have just had enough, I dont find it exciting any more and im sick of the crowds and the lack of space.

[ioiiooio]

LOL!!! Oh Zapiro! How I love thee....

http://www.mg.co.za/ContentImages/317375/24-aug07x.gif