Gender stuffs, continued. [Archive]

Azimuth

24-08-2007, 04:25 PM

This is a fascinating interview with a "post-gender" individual. (http://www.bmezine.com/news/pubring/20070804.html)

Warning: It's a little explicit.

Nonetheless, it offers some provocative commentary on gender and societal perceptions. Here's an excerpt:

I think it’s just a prejudice that being heavily tattooed isn’t feminine. It was reaching a certain level of coverage that seems to do it rather than the designs themselves. Particularly getting my hands done — so many people interpreted that as a very masculine thing, which seems really bizarre to me. I never thought of my sleeve and hand tattoos as being a transgender or masculine thing when I got them done. I only started to think about them that way later when I was being assessed as a transsexual so I could get a steroid prescription. My extensive tattoos were taken as a clear signal that I was already doing my best to live as a man, as was my short hair and the fact that I only had one lobe piercing at the time. This was an incredibly strange experience, because I’d had that stuff for years and never thought of it as being gendered. The whole thing was so easy for me because my body modifications happened to fit the psychiatrist’s gender stereotype. It’s pathetic really, cause I know a lot of people way more transsexual than I am who are having the opposite problem. At some clinics, trans-women who wear trousers are being told they aren’t committed enough. Most women wear trousers these days for goodness sake!

For a lot of people there is a strong sense that the most important thing a woman can do with her body is to present and modify it to be as attractive as possible to straight men. People don’t frame it like that of course — they try to imply that these efforts simply amount to taking care of ourselves and making ourselves feel good, but a lot of what mainstream society expects women to want from their bodies is extremely narrow-minded and heterosexist, in my opinion. For example, I often hear people debating the acceptability of large tattoos on women. Some people say it is “disgusting” and other people say “no way, women with big tattoos can look really beautiful and feminine...” This can of course be true, but what strikes me about this sort of conversation is that neither side have been able to step outside the paradigm where it is taken for granted that all women want to look feminine so that people who eroticise femininity will find them attractive. To some extent taking steroids was very reactionary. I was so sick of being told via advertising, popular entertainment, and the attitudes of people around me that one of my main concerns in life as a young woman should be to look as pretty and feminine as possible so that guys would fancy me. But then, of course, not to actually **** all these guys that fancy me, and certainly not to take money for it, because nobody likes a slut or a whore. Riiight... so what is the point of all this looking pretty again? Looking deliberately masculine was very appealing in the sense of doing a big visual “**** You!” to a society which shames women who are not young, thin, large-breasted, free from body hair, and all that bull****.

Nandrew

24-08-2007, 04:27 PM

To erase confusion: this thread is linked to a discussion here (http://forums.tidemedia.co.za/nag/showthread.php?t=577&page=4)

Epsi

24-08-2007, 04:28 PM

Ahaa. I dont think I have that long. My spider sence are telling me I on the road to geting band. Anyway. I just shared my view that sims is like playing with dolls. And I still feel that way, even after all of you tried to force your views onto me.

Do wish I knew you better. Sound like either someone smart... or really stuborn

ShadowMaster

24-08-2007, 04:28 PM

Banning you for having different views is petty.

But banning you for posting posts that insults someone is not.

Gazza_N

24-08-2007, 04:30 PM

@Epsi: You didn't share an opinion. You mocked the guy. Epic fail.

Azimuth

24-08-2007, 04:30 PM

I would assume that azimuth is talking about girls and gaming? NO?

But the "girls and gaming" thing is totally relevant too, if anyone wants to discuss it.

ShadowMaster

24-08-2007, 04:34 PM

You didn't share an opinion. You mocked the guy. Epic fail.

I hope your talking about epsi and not me.

Gazza_N

24-08-2007, 04:37 PM

I hope your talking about epsi and not me.

Sorry, not you. Quick Post and Slow Internet don't mix...

Epsi

24-08-2007, 04:40 PM

You didn't share an opinion. You mocked the guy. Epic fail.
Trust me when I try and mock somebody you would know. I'm just a very aggresive in nature... and have the weirdest sense of humor. Really I didnt meant to hurt anybody's feelings. Except maby Azimuth, but that was out of respect... and because I think she (or is it a he? I'm so confused!!!) can deal with it.

ShadowMaster

24-08-2007, 04:40 PM

Sorry, not you. Quick Post and Slow Internet don't mix...

Not necessarilly slow internet, just not fast enough typing and thinking in a quickly updating thread. It happens to me all the time.

See there it happened to me again.

Trust me when I try and mock somebody you would know. I'm just a very aggresive in nature... and have the weirdest sense of humor. Really I didnt meant to hurt anybody's feelings. Except maby Azimuth, but that was out of respect... and because I think she (or is it a he? I'm so confused!!!) can deal with it.

Aggression is taboo. Stop attacking people and they will like you more and check your post for ambigiuties, that might result in minor flame wars like this.

And how can you try to hurt anyones feelings out of respect. (Now I'm confused)

And fyi Azimuth IS A SHE.

Epsi

24-08-2007, 04:52 PM

Aggression is taboo. Stop attacking people and they will like you more and check your post for ambigiuties, that might result in minor flame wars like this.

And how can you try to hurt anyones feelings out of respect. (Now I'm confused)

And fyi Azimuth IS A SHE.

Easy, I can tell Azimuth likes herself a good fight. And only respect people that stands up to her. I can tell this since I grew up in hostel with about 200 boys for 12 years. Again I'm not accaking her. This is just my view. She is in a world mostly dominated by guys. So she has to stand up for herself, and that's why she feels the need to be the way she is. And I respect that. Now she will tell you all how wrong I am.

Miktar

24-08-2007, 05:00 PM

I'll tell you how wrong you are.

Stop drawing conclusions just because you feel hurt.

Epsi

24-08-2007, 05:04 PM

Feel hurt? huh? over what?

Miktar

24-08-2007, 05:05 PM

Read your PM, and let this topic go. That's my advice.

ShadowMaster

24-08-2007, 05:05 PM

@Epsi: I'm in no way offended by your post, I tend to ignore comments like that, but others might not.
But I don't like your oppinion that people should be bound by social stereotypes. If a guy wants to play with a barbie then so be it.

Miktar

24-08-2007, 05:06 PM

I was talking to Epsi.

ShadowMaster

24-08-2007, 05:10 PM

I realised that and removed the question.

Miktar

24-08-2007, 05:13 PM

I didn't know you realized that and removed the question. :P

ShadowMaster

24-08-2007, 05:14 PM

See, Miktar, this is another example of what I was talking to Gazza_N about. But thanks anyway.

Epsi

24-08-2007, 05:17 PM

Miktar

24-08-2007, 05:17 PM

Yeah, I see what you're getting at - but forums are just like this, they crystallize information and then people experience it at different times. Of course you're gonna get some asynchronous ****ups. :P

Just go with it.

Miktar

24-08-2007, 05:19 PM

Ever wonderd where social stereotypes comes from? Its years of evolition. Must respect that.

Social stereotypes are memetic constructions - and yes, they do evolve: but nowhere is there a law that states you need to accept social stereotypes.

Stereotypes lead to stagnation.

Azimuth

24-08-2007, 05:19 PM

Ever wonderd where social stereotypes comes from? Its years of evolition. Must respect that.

Um.

...

Oh, I just can't.

Gazza_N

24-08-2007, 05:22 PM

@Epsi: <--- (clever me! No more confyoojin!)

Social stereotypes are viral memes that are created and perpetuated through narrow-mindedness. They are a sad offshoot of the human need to classify, and are often completely false, if you haven't noticed yet. "Evolution"? More like the antithesis of it.

EDIT: CRUD! Miktar beat me to it >.<

ShadowMaster

24-08-2007, 05:25 PM

Ever wonderd where social stereotypes comes from? Its years of evolition. Must respect that.

Stereotyping is a useful survival mechanism. The primivative man couldn't just think one lion is dangerous because the others didn't attack him(yet). He must think all lions are dangerous(this is in essence a stereotype) and thereby staying alive because he avoids them.

However it has become obsolete(and again your being hard headed by ignoring what everyone is saying). People are different, not all psycopaths(I talking about the condition about not having a concionce not the killing) go on to killing people, therefore we should not stereotype them as such.

Stereotypes are generally damaging and prevent people from living their lives to the fullest because of people judging them by them.

kHayne

24-08-2007, 05:37 PM

Curse the male neanderthal urge to procreate.
To really understand the "DO WANT!" nature of man when he sees a truly spectacular piece of tail walk by, you simply have to have a pair.
Unfortunately with such levels of constant desire comes objectification. WANT car! WANT game! WANT punani! Since stereotyping of inanimates is pretty much par for the course (eg German cars rock, American cars blow...), it's just a short line in the sand to cross over to gender stereotyping.
Such is life, and it is manifestly pointless to cry about it. May as well embrace what you are.

Epsi

24-08-2007, 06:10 PM

To clarify : What I ment by "SIMS is like playing dolls" is = In SIMS (as well as many other games) you create your own world and characters in that world. It is a product of your imagination , yet it is also 'real' . Just like playing with barbies or GI Joes. Typically , playing 'happy family' is assosiated with girls , and more voilent competitive games are assosiated with guys . NOW HERE COMES THE PUNCH LINE : note that i said "typically assosiated" , not exlusively assosiated! Each person regardless of gender/race/etc have their own unique tastes , and OF COURSE some guys will play with barbie and be straight , and some girls will become plumbers...but , there are certain GENERAL behavior trends that are dictated by society , I DO NOT SAY THAT STEREOTYPING IS CORRECT OR NICE , BUT IT IS A FACT AND IS THERE.

Gazza_N

24-08-2007, 09:41 PM

It wasn't so much what you had to say as how you said it, I think. Anyway, enough battling. I think everyone's made their points. Can't speak for the others, but no hard feelings from my side (awwwww :p).

Besides, good debates are awesome. ;)

EDIT: And now I've got me a nifty description thing below my nick. It is nice down here... Nice fish's *gollum*

ShadowMaster

24-08-2007, 09:51 PM

It wasn't so much what you had to say as how you said it, I think. Anyway, enough battling. I think everyone's made their points. Can't speak for the others, but no hard feelings from my side (awwwww :p).

Besides, good debates are awesome. ;)

I agree, in Life Orientation we learnt that 90% of communication happens on a non verbal level. So sighing in one way can have a totally different meaning than sighing in another.
Sometimes even the position of the commas changes the meaning of the sentence completely. Therefore proofread your posts to ensure that there is no ambigiuties in what you mean.

But as for a good debate being fun, it is.

@Epsi: No hard feelings.

Epsi

24-08-2007, 10:05 PM

But as for a good debate being fun, it is.

@Epsi: No hard feelings.

I really didn't mean to offend you in any way. Glad to hear there's no hard feeelings.

And I woudnt really call it a debate... more like a "bash Epsi". But it's cool.

Enjoy your weekends.

Gazza_N

24-08-2007, 10:14 PM

Ah! But a debate doesn't involve bashing the person, just their arguments. Sadly, people do take debates like this in the wrong way, especially when the only means of communication is text. There was nothing personal here. At least not from me. Although it did get a bit heated in places...

Anyway, enjoy your weekend too. :)

Epsi

24-08-2007, 10:29 PM

@Epsi: <--- (clever me! No more confyoojin!)

Thats the only thing that ****ed me off...

Gazza_N

24-08-2007, 10:33 PM

Oh... That was actually a reference to how everyone was getting confused as to who was addressing who during the Great Parallel Posting (you saw ShadowMaster, Miktar and myself discussing how posts were going out of synch). "No more confusion" because I was directing the post to a specific person via the @. "Clever me" and weird spelling for humorous effect. I can see how that could've been misinterpreted...

ShadowMaster

24-08-2007, 10:36 PM

Because currently my respect rating for you is at zero and fortunately I doesn't go any lower. So you have nothing to lose.

@Epsi: if this hurt I ask you your forgiveness.

dangarratt

24-08-2007, 11:17 PM

You guys totally hijacked my e-penis thread.
I've always wanted to start an a thread with the word "e-penis" in the title - and then you all started talking about dolls and gays! Damn, talk about derailment!

By the way, the first people who figured out how to sell dolls to guys by calling them "action figures" - GENIUS! :)

Kensei

24-08-2007, 11:22 PM

But the "girls and gaming" thing is totally relevant too, if anyone wants to discuss it.

My favourite topic that is ;)

Back on topic: I think with the rise of the woman in the working world and the metrosexual and the lines between what a gender's 'role' in society have blurred, so have things like playing with 'dolls'.

I used to make my sister's Barbies into warriors and kick the ass of my Action Man :D And then glory were the days we bought Dungeon Keeper 2 with that free statue of...er.. Horny was it? Then we spent about 2 hours away from our PCs making the Barbie's have a wedding - which ended up having my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle crash the party and Ken admit, finally, that he was gay...

But thats a story for another time ;)

Epsi

24-08-2007, 11:50 PM

@Epsi: if this hurt I ask you your forgiveness.

Only sticks and bones hurt me... And jokes about my mother.

bought Dungeon Keeper 2 with that free statue of...er.. Horny was it?
WHAT??? I bought that game... didnt get anything with!!!Thiefes!
Was it like a special release or something? I want my own Horney doll... just me or does that sound... umm adult.

wir

25-08-2007, 09:02 AM

And jokes about my mother.
Are you serious? 0.o

Anyway, Stereotyping is crappy, it may have "saved" us in the past(someone mentioned lions?)
But they don't really have a place in the modern world, things are changing so fast.

Epsi

26-08-2007, 12:36 AM

The reason I'm glad most gamers are male, else we would not have THIS (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/24027.html)

wir

26-08-2007, 12:02 PM

z0mg, Tehre are Nipp0lz in Teh Vide0!

Nodity!

.dB

26-08-2007, 05:11 PM

lol

Epsi

26-08-2007, 05:22 PM

z0mg, Tehre are Nipp0lz in Teh Vide0!

Nodity!

Yea, They had warnings there. And a "age test". Think booth babes will oneday be replaced by... Booth Hunks? Now that would be gay.

Toi

26-08-2007, 05:29 PM

*Slightly off-topic*
Some hot topics = sexism, religion, racism, piracy, sexual preference & sims.

*Back on topic*
I usually stay away from these topics but I’m sometimes compelled to give my two cents.

I hate and appose generalization, I really do. Firstly I’ll admit that it is something very difficult to avoid. If I said in the beginning of my post that we cannot debate the above mentioned topics, that would be generalizing wouldn’t it? But that kind of generalizing doesn’t get to me, it’s almost unavoidable in a way.

I played with barbies when I was younger, goodness, I loved my cousins pink Barbie corvette. I also had so many action figures that my parents had to get me a huge chest and a huge cupboard just to put it all away. I’m 24 years old and would give my left nut to settle down and start a family and have felt this way for the past 3 years. I don’t like watching sport except for Moto GP, I hate F1, I hate getting my hands dirty, I don’t know what the hell a alternator does yet despite all these things I’m probably the manliest man you would ever meet. Why should I drink beer, watch rugby and talk about chick’s tits just to be seen as a man? I play sims, it’s not my favorite game ever but I like building houses and to start a family resembling me and my girlfriend. Now who dares to call me a wuss?

Generalizing is a two edged sword just as is racism. The same rules that apply to me in life applies to a woman. They to need to be respected and need to be given the freedom to be who they want to be and do what they choose to. Why should they conform to what society believes a woman should look, talk, and be like?

Another one that gets to me is that all men cheat on their partners. What BS. Why? Are men some uncivilized flippen animals that are lead by their penises? No we aren’t, not all men do. I’m sick of my girlfriend fearing the day that I’m going to cheat on her because that’s what she has experienced in life and that’s what she’s been spoon fed.

I for one (and I know that no one else will probably agree with me here) believe that the whole “men are from Mars, woman are from Venus” thing smells of poop. There are the obvious physical differences and because of different hormones men and woman act, think and talk a bit differently but that’s were it ends for me. The biggest **** that I have ever heard in my life is that men are more “physical” and woman are “emotional”. That’s why there is more porn for men or more men watch porn or buy porn or cheat on their wives etc….bull. Woman also think about sex. I know lots of girls who see sex in the same way as I do and think about it just as much as I do.

Anyway, that’s it for me, I’m getting bored now.
Chow. ;)

Azimuth

26-08-2007, 05:58 PM

Yea, They had warnings there. And a "age test". Think booth babes will oneday be replaced by... Booth Hunks? Now that would be gay.

Considering that recent polling shows almost half of gamers to be female (and let's not forget gay male gamers), I think it's time we saw booth dudes. Gay? No, just appealing to the market.

And really, Epsi - unless you've something intelligent to contribute, don't bother.

Epsi

26-08-2007, 06:06 PM

I don?t like watching sport except for Moto GP, I hate F1, I hate getting my hands dirty, I don?t know what the hell a alternator does yet despite all these things I?m probably the manliest man you would ever meet. Why should I drink beer, watch rugby and talk about chick?s tits just to be seen as a man?

I agree with you 100% on that part. But seruisly I dont get why people get so excited over these topics. I mean really who cares? The only person that has to accept you, is yourself. If you want to wear a dress and dance in the street singing song from your favourite musical movie, then do it. As long as you can live with yourself, its all good in my eyes.

Epsi

26-08-2007, 06:10 PM

And really, Epsi - unless you've something intelligent to contribute, don't bother.

Cant do that... else I'll never be able to post anything.

Kensei

26-08-2007, 06:32 PM

The reason I'm glad most gamers are male, else we would not have THIS (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/24027.html)

I...

Erm...

As I said on the old forums, I am sick of trying to debate the whole females vs. males in gaming thing.

All I can say is that publishers need to wizen up sooner or later to their demographic.
There is a reason I refused to play Tomb Raider for a long time [I did not want to spend hours staring at the rear end of Lara with her barely there shorts].
There is a reason I feel a little sick when I see games like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball [Urgh, boob frakking physics].
There is a reason why I stopped playing GTA:San Andreas [The whole idea that all the women were prostitutes and could be acquired like items]
There is a VERY obvious reason, regardless of what amazing contents it might have, why I don't buy a certain computer magazine.

I play games because they are games that are fun and a good escape from reality. I don't find staring at scantily clad women 'fun'. I don't find booth babes a reflection or relevance to the game they are promoting.

Games should be about games - not about how much effort you put into getting your main character's boobs to wobble or how sexy Lara Croft looks like when she comes out of a pool of water.

Enough said... I think.

Miktar

26-08-2007, 06:38 PM

Reports already show that the gaming demographic is normalizing at being 50/50 for male/female participation.

Move along.

Epsi

26-08-2007, 06:43 PM

There is a VERY obvious reason, regardless of what amazing contents it might have, why I don't buy a certain computer magazine.

Haha... The reason is't the cover... it's content. I love it when hey forget to convert pounds to rand. Did you know the editor was female? and there where only ever twice (or is it less?) women of color (just so you know I hate that word) on the cover.

Dude you missed out on some really classic games.

And there is alot more to GTA:San Andreas than prostitutes. Althou the games theme is adult.

Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball and XXX Rumbel Roses even makes me go WTF... but it wouldnt be there unless there is a market for it. And personly I'm glad it's women in those outfits and not men.

Epsi

26-08-2007, 07:09 PM

Reports already show that the gaming demographic is normalizing at being 50/50 for male/female participation.

Move along.

I *LOVE* it when people start throwing statistics around. Like the goverment, unemployment and crime goes down every year. Yet every person liveing in this country can see it is not true.

Want to know how they do it? It's all in how you define a word. ex: unemployment used to be people who is not employeed. They changed the defintion to "people who is unable to be employeed".

Same can be said about the gaming demographic. Look, i dont have problems with chicks playing games, or runing for president. Actually I think chicks would make far better politions than men. Anyway my point is when I go to a LAN, I am yet to see a 50/50 male/female ratio. I would rather bring it down to about 70/30 or maby even 60/40.

Miktar

26-08-2007, 07:15 PM

Epsi

26-08-2007, 07:29 PM

The gaming demographic *IS* normalizing at being 50/50, it has not *normalized*. Read what I write.

In the USA is has normalized there, but globally the rest of the world is still adjusting. It *will* normalize at 50/50, because that is the optimal money-making solution.

I couldent care less about the demographic. What I'm trying to say is it all depends on how you define the term GAMER. Playing Solitaire does not make you a gamer. Same can be said about all these cheap to produce games. I'm glad more of them are being made, but people playing them (mostley chicks) are not helping out GAMERS. Only makeing more games easy... and mainstream.

Miktar

26-08-2007, 07:31 PM

So what you're trying to say, is that female gamers make games easy and mainstream.

(Yes, I'm well aware of defining 'gamer' in context here. Which, by the way, isn't something you've done either. What *you* need to do, is stop defining it as 'yourself', because a gamer is certainly not someone who thinks that all females do, is play solitaire and 'Barbie Rides A Pony'. That's what schoolchildren who still think girls give them cooties, think like).

Man, I'm so not even touching this anymore.

brazed

26-08-2007, 07:39 PM

I *LOVE* it when people start throwing statistics around. Like the goverment, unemployment and crime goes down every year. Yet every person liveing in this country can see it is not true.

Want to know how they do it? It's all in how you define a word. ex: unemployment used to be people who is not employeed. They changed the defintion to "people who is unable to be employeed".

Same can be said about the gaming demographic. Look, i dont have problems with chicks playing games, or runing for president. Actually I think chicks would make far better politions than men. Anyway my point is when I go to a LAN, I am yet to see a 50/50 male/female ratio. I would rather bring it down to about 70/30 or maby even 60/40.

Chicks? Ok, henceforth all males will be called "****s", with their female couterparts being called "chicks".

Fair?

Miktar

26-08-2007, 07:39 PM

Chicks? Ok, henceforth all males will be called "****s", with their female couterparts being called "chicks".

Fair?

Seems fair.

Kensei

26-08-2007, 08:01 PM

I couldn't care less about the demographic. What I'm trying to say is it all depends on how you define the term GAMER. Playing Solitaire does not make you a gamer. Same can be said about all these cheap to produce games. I'm glad more of them are being made, but people playing them (mostly chicks) are not helping out GAMERS. Only making more games easy... and mainstream.

I didn't know that baby chickens were capable of typing, let alone playing games.

The definition of gamer differs from person to person and is outside of the scope of this discussion.

I can understand how some people are sore about the fact that Miyamoto is making the Nintendo more accessible to the general public and for that, I am sorry that he is not making games as hardcore as Contra.

Haha... The reason isn't the cover... it's content. I love it when hey forget to convert pounds to rand. Did you know the editor was female? and there where only ever twice (or is it less?) women of color (just so you know I hate that word) on the cover.

What has the fact that the editor is female got to do with the quality of the magazine? Last time I checked there are some really good PC magazines with female editors... I think that Lauren does an amazing job with SACM.

Dude you missed out on some really classic games.

As soon as you mention a 'classic' game I can comment fully on this statement.

And there is a lot more to GTA:San Andreas than prostitutes. Although the games theme is adult.

I know there was more to GTA:San Andreas than prostitutes - there was being a cool gangsta, annoying music, infuriating missions (like that damn chase-the-guy-on-your-super-bike) and horrible camera angles when driving... if you are insistent on highlighting the bad parts. I lost interest in the series when it went 3D.

Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball and XXX Rumble Roses even makes me go WTF... but it wouldn't be there unless there is a market for it. And personally I'm glad it's women in those outfits and not men.

As for this - As far as I know neither game made the top 10 games of all time. But games with original stories, e.g. Half-life, or overall excellent gameplay, e.g. Legend of Zelda, did in fact make it. Years from now, people will not be lamenting about how Rumble Roses was the best ever wrestling game.

.dB

26-08-2007, 08:29 PM

I'm refraining getting involved in this, but me (and some other forum'goers) would like to know the relevance of:

and there where only ever twice (or is it less?) women of color (just so you know I hate that word) on the cover.

In the current discussion. Also,

wat.

Azimuth

26-08-2007, 10:42 PM

Anyway my point is when I go to a LAN, I am yet to see a 50/50 male/female ratio. I would rather bring it down to about 70/30 or maby even 60/40.

That's why chicks don't go to LANs.

Epsi

26-08-2007, 10:44 PM

So what you're trying to say

NO I long ago forgot what I tried to say... But it seems everyone else has something to say. What I tried to say is people should judt take the stick out their ass and stop thinking their special. Nobody cares what you think, do or play. IF I want to talk about females as chicks, then I will. If you want to call guys ****s, then do it. You can call them "bannana boats" for all I care.

Look I'm tired. You people take offence in everything. If you want everybody to be equal, then treat everybody that way. As far as I can tell most of you have issues. Takeing everything I say out of context is not helping. Look life is unfair. It always will be. Accept it.

Epsi

26-08-2007, 10:46 PM

That's why chicks don't go to LANs.

No. Actually the last LAN I went to there where chicks outside in bikins washing cars. I swear. So I packed up my **** and went. Was not going to be part of that.

Miktar

26-08-2007, 10:56 PM

NO I long ago forgot what I tried to say... But it seems everyone else has something to say. What I tried to say is people should judt take the stick out their ass and stop thinking their special. Nobody cares what you think, do or play. IF I want to talk about females as chicks, then I will. If you want to call guys ****s, then do it. You can call them "bannana boats" for all I care.

Look I'm tired. You people take offence in everything. If you want everybody to be equal, then treat everybody that way. As far as I can tell most of you have issues. Takeing everything I say out of context is not helping. Look life is unfair. It always will be. Accept it.

Perhaps you need to re-read the thread and notice what you've been saying: that's what we're doing. We're not taking you out of context, you're unable to follow your own line of thinking.

Epsi

26-08-2007, 10:59 PM

Perhaps you need to re-read the thread and notice what you've been saying: that's what we're doing. We're not taking you out of context, you're unable to follow your own line of thinking.

I have read it. All I can gather is people are differnt. Knew that from the start. And you several times saying how your done with the thread... but it seems I miss read.

Miktar

26-08-2007, 11:01 PM

Don't get smart with me. I'm trying to help you out.

Epsi

26-08-2007, 11:59 PM

Don't get smart with me. I'm trying to help you out.

I'm sorry. Everybody I want you to know I have mental instability. I don't have feelings. Let me explain. I find this thread entertaining. Sounds cruel, but let me explain.

Ever felt bad over anything? Well I just can't. Just next time you feel bad think somewhere someone is getting raped, robbed or killed. Whatever sadness you mite have, is nothing compared to what those people feel. And thats how my head works.

Hope it helps you understand why I couldnt care less about any of this.

wir

27-08-2007, 05:57 AM

Ironically, I feel very sorry for you for being that way.

Is there a name for this mental illess?

Toi

27-08-2007, 08:27 AM

I agree with you 100% on that part. But seruisly I dont get why people get so excited over these topics. I mean really who cares? The only person that has to accept you, is yourself. If you want to wear a dress and dance in the street singing song from your favourite musical movie, then do it. As long as you can live with yourself, its all good in my eyes.

I agree. People should cool down but here?s the thing about man, they never will. People are VERY VERY VERY protective of what they feel and believe, try and challenge that and you will get into a fight my friend I can guarantee you that. See it as instinct if you like, just as an animal will protect its young.

I believe that this thread is very important, thanks for bringing it up Azi. ;)
It could be a very useful way of setting a few things straight about both males and females. Maybe you should just stop trying to explain yourself Epsi, my GF has the same habit of trying to explain herself and it only worsens a situation. Guys, maybe you shouldn't take Epsi too seriously (no offense dude), he is the way he is and it?s going to stay that way. Making it a two way fight between him and everyone else is repetitive and silly.

I think that we still have a lot of old tradition (ugh, I hate that word) to shake off. Lots of people still believe that man owns a woman. Which I believe is wrong, God created us ALL as equal. NO one is above OR under me.

Miktar

27-08-2007, 09:31 AM

I'm sorry. Everybody I want you to know I have mental instability. I don't have feelings. Let me explain. I find this thread entertaining. Sounds cruel, but let me explain.

Ever felt bad over anything? Well I just can't. Just next time you feel bad think somewhere someone is getting raped, robbed or killed. Whatever sadness you mite have, is nothing compared to what those people feel. And thats how my head works.

Hope it helps you understand why I couldnt care less about any of this.

Do you think you have Aspergers Syndrome?

Chevron

27-08-2007, 10:15 AM

I think that we still have a lot of old tradition (ugh, I hate that word) to shake off. Lots of people still believe that man owns a woman. Which I believe is wrong, God created us ALL as equal. NO one is above OR under me.

So when you get married you're not going to make your say the part where she promises to love and obey you?

Azimuth

27-08-2007, 11:04 AM

So when you get married you're not going to make your say the part where she promises to love and obey you?

Many people write their own vows these days. And those bits aren't included.

Toi

27-08-2007, 11:46 AM

So when you get married you're not going to make your say the part where she promises to love and obey you?

Oh no trust me she will..........but so will I. ;)

Gldm

27-08-2007, 11:59 AM

Pff vows. My wedding was more like "Initial here, here, here, sign here..." We were back at work before lunch. :P

Toi

27-08-2007, 12:05 PM

When it comes to weddings I'm VERY oldskool. I want a pretty wedding man, all the bells and wistles.

Azimuth

27-08-2007, 12:15 PM

Pff vows. My wedding was more like "Initial here, here, here, sign here..." We were back at work before lunch. :P

Dude, I'm so with you on that. Weddings have become so ridiculously extravagant. Who wants to be paying off some ceremony for, like, five years? Besides, those dresses are so impractical.

Toi

27-08-2007, 12:19 PM

Who wants to be paying off some ceremony for, like, five years?

Me.

Besides Azi, I reckon you would look so pretty.

Azimuth

27-08-2007, 12:20 PM

I don't do dresses or lace or crockery patterns or histrionics.

Chevron

27-08-2007, 12:52 PM

Dude, I'm so with you on that. Weddings have become so ridiculously extravagant. Who wants to be paying off some ceremony for, like, five years? Besides, those dresses are so impractical.

Impractical too walk 2 hundred metres? It's only one day. Don't you wanna look extravagant/classy/beautiful or whatever? The whole point of the wedding dress is to make sure she is the centre of attention. Something to make the Bride feel special, like royalty.

I thought a girls wedding was the most important occasion of her life?

I realize you may not fall into this stereotype, but don't you wanna look back at when you married the love of your life, the person you'll be with for the rest of your life, and be glad you had a wedding as large as what you love for him is?

[off topic]It's funny the brides dress can thousands of rands, but the guys tux can just be a rental.[/off topic]

Toi

27-08-2007, 12:52 PM

Hey, don't spoil my purple tentacle in a wedding dress fantasy ok.

Azimuth

27-08-2007, 12:57 PM

Impractical too walk 2 hundred metres? It's only one day. Don't you wanna look extravagant/classy/beautiful or whatever? The whole point of the wedding dress is to make sure she is the centre of attention. Something to make the Bride feel special, like royalty.

I'm not an attention whore.

I thought a girls wedding was the most important occasion of her life?

Yes, stereotype. If my wedding day were the most important day of my life, I've not had much of a life, have I? Besides, how could anything top seeing In Flames live? Pffft.

I realize you may not fall into this stereotype, but don't you wanna look back at when you married the love of your life, the person you'll be with for the rest of your life, and be glad you had a wedding as large as what you love for him is?

No. Jeez, what's with all this materialism? I don't need to blow tens of thousands of rands to say "I love you". Instead, I'd really rather just say, "I love you".

Besides, I have no intention of marrying. It's just not for me.

Toi

27-08-2007, 01:12 PM

I love weddings, I really do. Look, I can understand why some people would think they are silly. It's just a personal preverance thing. You don't need to have one but then again, why not, you only (or you're supposed to) get married once, why not splash out a little.

Azi, it doesn't make you an attention whore, it is you're wedding after all.

Azimuth

27-08-2007, 01:20 PM

Miktar

27-08-2007, 01:23 PM

Slowly but surely, people are starting to realize that not everyone goes for the 'Grow up, Get a Job, Get Married, Have a Wife, Two Children, Get a House with a White Picket Fence, Grow Old, Get put in a Nice Retirement Home, Die' plotline.

My wedding involved staying awake long enough to sign an important bit of paper.

The idea of having 'The Happiest Day of your Life' being when you get married to a single person just does not compute for me, probably because I fail to understand the 'Right Person For Me Forever!' mentality - there are billions of fish in the ocean - the chances of you finding 'That One Special One' is infinitesimally teenytiney and hey, if you DO, congrats...

But life is a journey: it's stupid to try and measure it by the pit stops.

wisp

27-08-2007, 01:27 PM

Me i love weddings , love them so much that i did it 3 times my self:) yes i am a sucker for punishment

Toi

27-08-2007, 01:30 PM

I don't think weddings are silly; I think all the pomp and circumstance and outrageous expenditure is silly. It almost invariably eclipses the actual purpose of the event - which is simply the loving union of two people. Instead, everyone is consumed with picking outfits and catering and ****ing china patterns. I mean, come on.

I do feel the same. While I can't wait for mine, mine will not be the stereotyped big wedding. It will be me and my girlfriend, it will reflect our unique love and personalities.

Have you seen the last episode of Desperate housewifes. Susan's wedding, now that was a beautifull wedding if I've ever seen one.

@ Miktar: I also don't believe in the one. I believe that you simply choose who to love and then stick with that person through thick and thin.

Nimue

27-08-2007, 01:38 PM

I think, your wedding should be a memorable moment, along with all those other memorable moments. So if just saying "I love you" is memorable enough for you, good for you. Its the one time in your life you get to complain, and pick everything, so that it's exactly what you want, including the fine china and flowers and what ever you like. So if you have the money, I say: go for it, its not an everyday thing.

Epsi

27-08-2007, 03:18 PM

Do you think you have Aspergers Syndrome?

Yes that, combined with insomnia, very high IQ, very short memory and the spelling capabilities of a ten year old.

Azimuth

27-08-2007, 03:20 PM

Excuse me while my eyes just rattle and roll in their sockets.

Miktar

27-08-2007, 03:24 PM

Yes that, combined with insomnia, very high IQ, very short memory and the spelling capabilities of a ten year old.

Spelling comes through effort, nothing else. If you spell poorly, it only shows a lack of effort, not a lack of ability.

As for Insomnia, High IQ, Short Memory and Aspergers - well, it just sucks to be you, doesn't it? Bummer, dude.

Epsi

27-08-2007, 03:36 PM

As for Insomnia, High IQ, Short Memory and Aspergers - well, it just sucks to be you, doesn't it? Bummer, dude.

I don't get it... Why does it suck to be me? Being normal is over rated and boring.

Epsi

27-08-2007, 03:41 PM

unless you've something intelligent to contribute, don't bother.

Excuse me while my eyes just rattle and roll in their sockets.

Yes... Interesting.

Nandrew

27-08-2007, 03:44 PM

To catch up on this thread and bring our viewers up to speed ...

What has the fact that the editor is female got to do with the quality of the magazine? Last time I checked there are some really good PC magazines with female editors... I think that Lauren does an amazing job with SACM.

*waves little Lauren flag* ^_^

I don't do dresses or lace or crockery patterns or histrionics.

Poniez, on the other hand, would rawk. At least ones bearing In Flames tattoos.

Yes that, combined with insomnia, very high IQ, very short memory, the spelling capabilities of a ten year old and a remarkably poor ability to catch on to Miktar's irony.

But seriously, that post was so worthy that I actually laughed out loud when I first saw it. For reals. I had to step away from the computer and walk around the room for a bit before I sat down and typed this out.

Miktar

27-08-2007, 03:45 PM

I don't get it... Why does it suck to be me? Being normal is over rated and boring.

You're the one who keeps bringing up your flaws, not us. You just make it sound as if it sucks to be you, and that's why I said it must suck to be you.

"Woe is me, I have a high IQ, insomnia, nobody loves me, everybody hates me, everyone picks on me.."

Your attitude, man. Attitude.

Gldm

27-08-2007, 03:49 PM

Poniez, on the other hand, would rawk.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7981/motivator3103234fe3ey2.jpg

Chevron

27-08-2007, 03:51 PM

Poniez, on the other hand, would rawk. At least ones bearing In Flames tattoos.

Like the pokemon "ponyta" and "rapidash"? ;)

I wish pokemon were real. I want an Alakazam and a Gengar.

Epsi

27-08-2007, 04:17 PM

You're the one who keeps bringing up your flaws, not us. You just make it sound as if it sucks to be you, and that's why I said it must suck to be you.

"Woe is me, I have a high IQ, insomnia, nobody loves me, everybody hates me, everyone picks on me.."

Your attitude, man. Attitude.

Flaws? HUH? I don't really see them as flaws. Only flaw I have is boredom. And how can you say "nobody loves me, everybody hates me", when it's so clear it's more the other way around.

Miktar

27-08-2007, 04:21 PM

You totally don't get me.

Anyway, try to keep the attitude in check.

I'm off to London until Friday. Gbye.

Nandrew

27-08-2007, 04:27 PM

You totally don't get me.

Anyway, try to keep the attitude in check.

I'm off to London until Friday. Gbye.

London, brb?

Epsi

27-08-2007, 04:27 PM

You totally don't get me.

I blame the lack of sleep. Anyway, GoodBye. Enjoy your stay.

Epsi

27-08-2007, 04:30 PM

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7981/motivator3103234fe3ey2.jpg

I can't help noticeing, right in the front there sits a cat.

Chevron

27-08-2007, 04:34 PM

I can't help noticeing, right in the front there sits a cat.

Two cats. There's a yellow one too.

Epsi

27-08-2007, 04:41 PM

Two cats. There's a yellow one too.

... You mean the one with a mustache?

Chevron

27-08-2007, 04:48 PM

... You mean the one with a mustache?

Ja.

There are also two baby dragons in the foreground.

wir

27-08-2007, 04:59 PM

I also can't help but notice a Spartan somewhere in there.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8607/spartanponywn0.jpg

Epsi

27-08-2007, 05:03 PM

I also can't help but notice a Spartan somewhere in there.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8607/spartanponywn0.jpg

That's the uglyest pony I have ever seen.

Q-Man

27-08-2007, 05:22 PM

HAHAHAHA OMG! There's something ****ing AWESOME in the (original) pic of the ponies! It's hidden, so try and find it. When you see it you're **** bricks, seriously.

Boggle24

27-08-2007, 05:50 PM

HAHAHAHA OMG! There's something ****ing AWESOME in the (original) pic of the ponies! It's hidden, so try and find it. When you see it you're **** bricks, seriously.

;_;
All I can find are 2 seaponies (*err, seahorses ?*).

Epsi

27-08-2007, 05:59 PM

;_;
All I can find are 2 seaponies (*err, seahorses ?*).

Yea, beneath the rainbow...

X51

27-08-2007, 10:46 PM

I'd just like to say something.

As someone with an autism-related disorder, I can honestly say that having autism/asperger's is no excuse for being a ****.

That is all.

Epsi

27-08-2007, 11:03 PM

I'd just like to say something.

As someone with an autism-related disorder, I can honestly say that having autism/asperger's is no excuse for being a ****.

That is all.

I know. I never used it as an excuse. And I'm very sorry if that is how it comes across.

I am a ****, I don't hide it.

X51

27-08-2007, 11:05 PM

I know. I never used it as an excuse. And I'm very sorry if that is how it comes across.

I am a ****, I don't hide it.

Fair enough.

Epsi

27-08-2007, 11:13 PM

Fair enough.

Very few people know about Aspergers Syndrome, most think its some kind of mental illness. I'm sick of caring what people think of me. So I just AM.

X51

27-08-2007, 11:15 PM

Very few people know about Aspergers Syndrome, most think its some kind of mental illness. I'm sick of caring what people think of me. So I just AM.

'Tis your choice :)

Nandrew

28-08-2007, 11:43 AM

Very few people know about Aspergers Syndrome, most think its some kind of mental illness.

I'm sorry. Everybody I want you to know I have mental instability.

If you, as the lamenting victim, describe it this way yourself, then I'm not surprised that people have, like, this perception of the syndrome.

And for someone who doesn't care what people think, you sure have been screaming for a pity parade in this thread.

Epsi

28-08-2007, 02:22 PM

If you, as the lamenting victim, describe it this way yourself, then I'm not surprised that people have, like, this perception of the syndrome.

And for someone who doesn't care what people think, you sure have been screaming for a pity parade in this thread.

Just cant let it go... can you. If you go look up Aspergers Syndrome you will notice why I am the way I am... Since your of tender mind I'l explain it for you in 3 simple words. I'm Socialy retarded

Happy now.

Nimue

28-08-2007, 02:58 PM

OK!! Everybody just give it a rest, and let this thread die in peace.

Azimuth

28-08-2007, 03:58 PM

There's no need for this thread to die, in peace or otherwise. On the contrary, it's an arena for some fascinating discussion. Just because you've nothing of worth to add doesn't mark it as a lost cause.

Kensei

28-08-2007, 04:54 PM

Then let us continue:

This is a double question.

Guys: Have you ever been embarassed to admit to playing (or wanting to play) a 'non-manly' game... like LocoRoco or the new Little Big Planet?

Gals: Ever got funny looks because you played games?

echo

28-08-2007, 05:09 PM

No, not really. LBP actually looks really nice despite my usuall interests (I'm a skop, skiet & donner kind of gamer). But what really bothers me now is the fact that I have the "My little pony" themesong stuck in my head.

Btw, LBP's themesong is awesome!

Gldm

28-08-2007, 05:18 PM

Then let us continue:

Guys: Have you ever been embarassed to admit to playing (or wanting to play) a 'non-manly' game... like LocoRoco or the new Little Big Planet?

No, not really. Then again there aren't that many "non-manly" games. Things like Sims are pretty neutral. The only one in recent memory that drew comments was probably Viva Pinata, but that's a good enough game to stand up to criticism. I think it'd take something like Hello Kitty Roller Rescue or one of the Barbie license games to really make me blink before telling people I enjoy playing it. I'd be more ashamed to admit playing and liking Transformers than Viva Pinata. (Hypothetically of course. I don't think anyone really liked Transformers).

Azimuth

28-08-2007, 05:25 PM

Nandrew

28-08-2007, 05:57 PM

Just cant let it go... can you. If you go look up Aspergers Syndrome you will notice why I am the way I am... Since your of tender mind I'l explain it for you in 3 simple words. I'm Socialy retarded

Happy now.

Tender mind? First off, if you want to explain something in three simple words to somebody of "tender mind", try make them grammatically correct. Secondly, try actually reading my point and facing the issue in question.

You're trying to excuse your behaviour by pointing to Asperger's Syndrome. I already know what it is (lulz) and you're just using it as a scapegoat for your behaviour. You acted like a ****, realised you weren't popular and so climbed into a little "boohoo-I-have_Assburger's" ball to defend yourself. "Ohnoz! Nobody understands Asperger's! So I can get on my pedestal and be the victim!"

In fact, to clarify:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

Also note that having Asperger's doesn't mean that you can't learn social intelligence. It's not an innate emotional capability, but it doesn't mean that you can't retain and apply knowledge of social interaction through intellectualised learning. Asperger's doesn't inhibit mental capability.

Unless ...

Unless ...

You've just feebly grasped at Asperger's because Miktar mentioned it. Liek, you know, liek, I don't think you have Asperger's at all, it was a latch-on concept that you're running with. And, liek, you're just stoopid. Cos some of the stuff you describe isn't Asperger's at all. kthx.

Next pity parade in 3 ... 2 ...

wir

28-08-2007, 06:49 PM

Tender mind? First off, if you want to explain something in three simple words to somebody of "tender mind", try make them grammatically correct. Secondly, try actually reading my point and facing the issue in question.

You're trying to excuse your behaviour by pointing to Asperger's Syndrome. I already know what it is (lulz) and you're just using it as a scapegoat for your behaviour. You acted like a ****, realised you weren't popular and so climbed into a little "boohoo-I-have_Assburger's" ball to defend yourself. "Ohnoz! Nobody understands Asperger's! So I can get on my pedestal and be the victim!"

In fact, to clarify:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

Also note that having Asperger's doesn't mean that you can't learn social intelligence. It's not an innate emotional capability, but it doesn't mean that you can't retain and apply knowledge of social interaction through intellectualised learning. Asperger's doesn't inhibit mental capability.

Unless ...

Unless ...

You've just feebly grasped at Asperger's because Miktar mentioned it. Liek, you know, liek, I don't think you have Asperger's at all, it was a latch-on concept that you're running with. And, liek, you're just stoopid. Cos some of the stuff you describe isn't Asperger's at all. kthx.

Next pity parade in 3 ... 2 ...

PWNED.

(Sorry, I really don't have anything more to add to the discussion, I just felt I'd share my feeling on the pwnage post though)

Azimuth

28-08-2007, 07:00 PM

Asperger's. (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Asperger's_Syndrome)

.dB

28-08-2007, 07:09 PM

Epsi

28-08-2007, 07:37 PM

Tender mind? First off, if you want to explain something in three simple words to somebody of "tender mind", try make them grammatically correct. Secondly, try actually reading my point and facing the issue in question.

You're trying to excuse your behaviour by pointing to Asperger's Syndrome. I already know what it is (lulz) and you're just using it as a scapegoat for your behaviour. You acted like a ****, realised you weren't popular and so climbed into a little "boohoo-I-have_Assburger's" ball to defend yourself. "Ohnoz! Nobody understands Asperger's! So I can get on my pedestal and be the victim!"

In fact, to clarify:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

Also note that having Asperger's doesn't mean that you can't learn social intelligence. It's not an innate emotional capability, but it doesn't mean that you can't retain and apply knowledge of social interaction through intellectualised learning. Asperger's doesn't inhibit mental capability.

Unless ...

Unless ...

You've just feebly grasped at Asperger's because Miktar mentioned it. Liek, you know, liek, I don't think you have Asperger's at all, it was a latch-on concept that you're running with. And, liek, you're just stoopid. Cos some of the stuff you describe isn't Asperger's at all. kthx.

Next pity parade in 3 ... 2 ...

Ahh... I love you too. Didnt read all of it. Coudnt care less. I have Asperger's. My parents took me to a child shrink when I was Standert 3. Or Grade 5 as It's known now. Been a aspie ever since. Obvisioly it nice to use as a excuse. And if I wanted to I could have brought it up sooner. I don't know how Miktar knew I had it, but he did. Then I got bored with the thread... like 2 days ago. Nobody is learning anything here. It's pointless.

liek who is stooopid now.

EDIT: And you don't go around telling people in wheel chair to walk. It's rude. Who the ****?

Nandrew

28-08-2007, 09:17 PM

Ahh... I love you too. Didnt read all of it. Coudnt care less.

... blah blah blah pity parade blah blah blah ...

Sorry, didn't read the rest. I, liek, couldn't care less and stuff.

Here's a free tip, though: don't try present a counter-argument if you haven't bothered looking at the other person's full message first. kthx.

Epsi

28-08-2007, 09:20 PM

Sorry, didn't read the rest. I, liek, couldn't care less and stuff.

Here's a free tip, though: don't try present a counter-argument if you haven't bothered looking at the other person's full message first. kthx.

Thanks for the tip. I'll try that next time.

Kensei

28-08-2007, 09:35 PM

Epsi

28-08-2007, 10:01 PM

Epsi: I am sorry you are aspie - my friend though he was for a while before they told him he actually had 'High Performance Autism' - I think thats what it was.
No, I am not being sarcastic or evil.
I can empathize with the 'social disorder' things - my friend can be one minute happy and over the moon, the next he is down and overcritical of himself. I just have to ride the wave with him.

I am not letting you completely off the hook though, I'm sorry but an insult is an insult. I know you feel that you have to retaliate for everything that Nandrew says, but you don't. If you don't care, then don't post - its simple.

I can suggest if you further want to discuss social disablities, you create a new thread and discuss it there.

Back on topic? Please?

I'm sorry it came up, but glad it did. And I just replay to make him mad.

Anyway, Back on topic...

Ahhh... I can feel the heat of this... but it's been bothering me for years, and mabye you guys can clear it up for me. A few years ago I saw adds in the NAG, they where looking for FEMALE writers only. I felt very bad for the poor chick who gets the job, cause she just gets it because of her gender. Anway keep in mind this was a few years back. I don't even think she works at NAG any more.

Nandrew

28-08-2007, 10:17 PM

I'm sorry it came up, but glad it did. And I just replay to make him mad.

That's them thar bruised ego talking, my boy.

Interesting point about the female writers, though. Still, I'd like confirmation of its occurrence before I comment too thoroughly on the issue. Anybody around to enlighten us?

Epsi

28-08-2007, 10:21 PM

Still, I'd like confirmation of its occurrence before I comment too thoroughly on the issue. Anybody around to enlighten us?

... Why back... before NAG had any female writers. Think it could have been 3 years, maby more?

Nandrew

28-08-2007, 10:27 PM

... Why back... before NAG had any female writers. Think it could have been 3 years, maby more?

Ahh, you see, what I meant is: could anybody here who worked at NAG a few years ago confirm the specific desire for female writers?

Or, failing that, did anybody else here see these same adverts?

Gldm

29-08-2007, 10:58 AM

What puzzles me is the pandemic double standard of "manly" things being okay for everyone, but "girly" things being for girls only. Nobody's bothered in the slightest by the girls around here playing games like UT2004, but apparently there's something weird about guys playing the Sims. Seriously, what's with that?

It's directly related to the same causes of the whole "Male homosexuality is a burn-at-the-stake offense but female homosexuality is just awesome!" duality. I'll explain it sometime when I'm not quite as busy. Maybe later today. :P

Miktar

29-08-2007, 11:02 AM

We asked for a female writer, because we wanted a female columnist.

What's wrong with that? Or would you prefer NAG to be 100% sausage? ;)

Epsi - the call for a female writer, was because we wanted new, fresh, different and interesting opinions, ideas and discussion in the magazine. I think Dammit and Azimuth have lived up to that task.

wisp

29-08-2007, 11:11 AM

Epsi - the call for a female writer, was because we wanted new, fresh, different and interesting opinions, ideas and discussion in the magazine. I think Dammit and Azimuth have lived up to that task.

Absolutely 100% agree

Toi

29-08-2007, 11:19 AM

It's directly related to the same causes of the whole "Male homosexuality is a burn-at-the-stake offense but female homosexuality is just awesome!" duality. I'll explain it sometime when I'm not quite as busy. Maybe later today. :P

I've been puzzled by this for years. I really can't wait for you're post.

I"ve never really asked a girl this but do woman also find male homosexuality "dirty" like most men do? Just as how most straight girls find FH "dirty".

wisp

29-08-2007, 11:32 AM

I've been puzzled by this for years. I really can't wait for you're post.

I"ve never really asked a girl this but do woman also find male homosexuality "dirty" like most men do? Just as how most straight girls find FH "dirty".

It a good Question , also can't wait for the reply. A lot of mens sexual fantasy evolves a Threesome namely 2 woman , one man ..so therefore accept and enjoy Lesbians but do woman think of 2 guys in the same way..would like to hear the answer from our female readers

Toi

29-08-2007, 11:34 AM

................would like to hear the answer from our female readers

Ha ha, yeah like in, the four of them ;)

Frozenfireside

29-08-2007, 11:34 AM

'My first time' sums this **** up.
Oh and Miktar-As long as you only employ quality columnists, I don't care who you hire and will still buy NAG.

Toi

29-08-2007, 11:37 AM

It a good Question , also can't wait for the reply. A lot of mens sexual fantasy evolves a Threesome namely 2 woman , one man ..so therefore accept and enjoy Lesbians but do woman think of 2 guys in the same way..would like to hear the answer from our female readers

Look, I can imagine that some woman would like to have sex with two men. I assume that you would also want to know if the girl involved in the threesome would enjoy it if the men had a go at it?

NOTE:

This thread just turned R18, go do you're homework kids.

Toi

29-08-2007, 11:39 AM

'My first time' sums this **** up.

More details please, my head is running full steam making up wild assumptions.

Frozenfireside

29-08-2007, 11:42 AM

There is a thread called 'my first time' that you should read.

wisp

29-08-2007, 11:45 AM

Look, I can imagine that some woman would like to have sex with two men. I assume that you would also want to know if the girl involved in the threesome would enjoy it if the man had a go at it.

NOTE:

This thread just turned R18, go do you're homework kids.

LOL yes Kiddies is nap time,
Serious though , if men see Lesbians as ok (which most men do and even fantasize about) the why the double standard when it come to Male Homosexuality?

Frozenfireside

29-08-2007, 12:02 PM

Please read this ===>> http://forums.tidemedia.co.za/nag/showthread.php?t=627

wisp

29-08-2007, 12:46 PM

Please read this ===>> http://forums.tidemedia.co.za/nag/showthread.php?t=627

I did read it , no comment on that article..well would like to but some times best to say nothing at all..needless to say we must be popular and the other forum very boring if one has to explain his day away at NAG . maybe they will all join us and see what they are missing over here.

Nimue

29-08-2007, 01:33 PM

Personally, I find a little man on man action a little grouss.AND.nasty. I find the thought of 2 girls kissing a little more acceptable. *Nimue thinks of a Chinese girl* Girls kissing just seems "cleaner", but then again, all the lesbians I've ever seen were really butch, and not really the stuff fantasies are made of.

I have pondered on the thought of a threesome before, but always 2 girls and a guy.

I NEVER want to see 2 guys kiss, if I can help it.

Aesir

29-08-2007, 01:36 PM

wisp

29-08-2007, 01:38 PM

I have pondered on the thought of a threesome before, but always 2 girls and a guy.

I NEVER want to see 2 guys kiss, if I can help it.

That Nimue is my point , why do men have double standards when it comes to such. There is nothing wrong with two men kissing. Kissing is a expression of affection or love and 2 men can be in love , but we see nothing wrong with watching two woman kiss ...double standards.

Miktar

29-08-2007, 02:13 PM

@wisp: Because people who say they're 'open minded' really mean 'I'm open minded when it comes to stuff I like".

Toi

29-08-2007, 02:28 PM

^^ I love you. I'm so buying you a coke at RAGE. ;)

Toi

29-08-2007, 02:30 PM

Girls kissing just seems "cleaner", but then again, all the lesbians I've ever seen were really butch, and not really the stuff fantasies are made of.

This is so true. Question; how many lesbian couples have you seen that look like the ones you see on film or whatever you're platform for porn is?

You don't see these things only in porn, just an example. ;)

Nimue

29-08-2007, 02:33 PM

I don't think, only men think 2 girls kissing is more acceptable than two men kissing, I'm sure there are a lot of girls that share that point of view. I'm certainly one of them.

wisp

29-08-2007, 02:34 PM

@wisp: Because people who say they're 'open minded' really mean 'I'm open minded when it comes to stuff I like".
Touche

Azimuth

29-08-2007, 02:35 PM

I think two men kissing looks rather nice, actually. Especially if they were, say, Ralph Fiennes and Jared Leto.

wisp

29-08-2007, 02:39 PM

I think two men kissing looks rather nice, actually. Especially if they were, say, Ralph Fiennes and Jared Leto.
thank you , thank you , thank you now if everyone was as open minded as you and Miktar are what a better place this world might be to live in :)

Toi

29-08-2007, 02:50 PM

But here's the thing wisp, they might not be as acceptable as I am with another subject. So in other words this is all subjective right? So we will never really have an answer, for every person that says yes another will say no.

Miktar

29-08-2007, 02:51 PM

Respect and Tolerance, are Universal ideas.

Nimue

29-08-2007, 02:52 PM

What does open minded mean in your eyes?

(Note: I ask this sincerely.)

Toi

29-08-2007, 02:53 PM

@ Miktar: Come again. Soz, I'm not with you here.

Are you saying that we should respect it whether we tolerate it or not?

Toi

29-08-2007, 02:55 PM

What does open minded mean in your eyes?

(Note: I ask this sincerely.)

This is a tuffy hey, I mean, you think that someone can be open minded about anything?

Miktar

29-08-2007, 03:06 PM

Good question, Nimue. I don't know if I have a good answer for you.

To me, "open minded" has always denoted the idea of someone not instantly rejecting a concept or idea, especially not on the merit of it being contradictory to upbringing or societal norms, but rather embracing and "grokking" the idea because *ideas are good* and then later making up their mind about it.

Open Minded, is entertaining an idea for the *sake of the idea*, not because you believe it, but because you're willing to believe in a construct of it for the sake of education.

If I had to make an example, being open minded is being able to understand that there is nothing wrong with two men kissing - you may not like it, but there is *nothing wrong with it*.

Azimuth

29-08-2007, 03:08 PM

+10 for using the word "grok".

And I agree with everything Miktar just said.

Miktar

29-08-2007, 03:17 PM

Being open-minded is having a 1200-year-old alien friend from another planet who would like nothing more than to be an inflateable pool toy - and not blinking an eye.

Toi

29-08-2007, 03:20 PM

thank you , thank you , thank you now if everyone was as open minded as you and Miktar are what a better place this world might be to live in :)

One should just be carefull not to allow everything to be acceptable. That's why I think that one should not be completely open minded about everything.

Miktar

29-08-2007, 03:21 PM

No, Leon - you *should*.

But being open-minded and thinking about something, doesn't mean you *endorse* or *support* it. That's the distinction I was making earlier.

Nobody said being open-minded means making everything acceptable. It means *understanding* why something should be acceptable, or not.

Azimuth

29-08-2007, 03:25 PM

Nobody said being open-minded means making everything acceptable. It means *understanding* grokking why something should be acceptable, or not.

It's all about perspicacity. You don't have to endorse religion, for example, in order to understand why it exists and perpetuates.

Miktar

29-08-2007, 03:27 PM

+10 to Post Fixing: Azimuth levels up! Azimuth learns new attack: PERSPICACITY.

Azimuth

29-08-2007, 03:29 PM

* Azimuth casts PERSPICACITY!
* Azimuth groks.
* Everything explodes

wisp

29-08-2007, 03:31 PM

One should just be carefull not to allow everything to be acceptable. That's why I think that one should not be completely open minded about everything.

I think that if everyone practised universal tolerance and acceptance of the fundamental differences of each individual's right to freedom of choice and used there knowledge to the betterment of mankind in general instead finding fault were ever they look , the world would be a better place to wake up in.

"imagine" by Mr John Lennon sort of somes up what i am trying to say

(OMG did all those big words come out of me ...need a cookie sugar high is over..qman pass those babies around)

Miktar

29-08-2007, 03:33 PM

* Azimuth casts PERSPICACITY!
* Azimuth groks.
* Everything explodes

Grok is just fun to say. I'm going to tribute to Calvin and Hobbs here:

Grok. Grok. Grok. Grok. Grok. Grok. Grok.

Toi

29-08-2007, 03:33 PM

Oh ok, I see what you're saying now.

See I was just wondering if it's possible to be open-minded and still have strong religious views.

For some or other reason I'm reminded of when Jesus said that "we should hate the sin and not the sinner". I don't endorse or accept something per se (I have no idea how to spell that) but I try and understand it.

Miktar

29-08-2007, 03:37 PM

See I was just wondering if it's possible to be open-minded and still have strong religious views.

The capacity is always there. I've dated some of the most religious people in the world - they were capable, intelligent, rational and resonable beings almost to a fault - but they were religious because that's what they eventually decided on.

There is nothing wrong with religion - it's the application thereof that sometimes results in showing the worst humanity has to offer.

Toi

29-08-2007, 03:45 PM

Miktar

29-08-2007, 03:48 PM

I don't believe so much in balance, but I believe in being at peace with something. Balance usually involves trying to change yourself, or something else, for the sake of the human perception of being "at balance" with a concept, idea, person or place.

But that's just begging for more problems, really.

Making peace with a concept or idea, is saying "I don't like it, but it's bigger than me and beyond my scope". Religion, for example - I understand it, I see the need for it and I accept it : but I don't believe it's a good thing. I believe it is detrimental to the advancement of humanity as a species, even though I understand how religion has many positive effects on a societal structure. But, religion is bigger than me, it's a concept, movement and idea far beyond my scope to change.

So I've made peace with it.

wisp

29-08-2007, 03:51 PM

True. I think that it's because "people" and the "church" tought us that anything that "they" think is wrong is well, wrong and unacceptable. I believe that Jesus wants us to differ.

You know, it struck me now, man, christians can be so cruel sometimes. Again I'm reminded of "hate the sin, not the sinner". Some people do the exact opposite.

Ok, sorry for SERIOUSLY derailing the thread. I'll stop with the religion stuff for the sake of stopping someone from causing trouble. It's just always so interresting to see how we try and balance everything in life.

there is nothing wrong with being religious, religion teaches you principles to live by in accordance with your faith but one must also accept that other ppl of different religions and walks of live also have there own set of morals and principals.

I applaud the fact that you religious are don't let anyone try to distarct you from your faith but always try to keep a open mind thats all anyone can ask...thanks u Leon..

Nimue

29-08-2007, 04:03 PM

I seems to me, that people think "open minded" means to agree with the "odd one out" - type of statements. Being open minded is an idealism, I think. For me open minded means to at least consider the apposing argument even if you do not agree with it from the start, and after considering both sides of the argument to make/form your own views, based on your own experiences / values and careful considerations.

Toi

29-08-2007, 04:04 PM

there is nothing wrong with being religious, religion teaches you principles to live by in accordance with your faith but one must also accept that other ppl of different religions and walks of live also have there own set of morals and principals.

I applaud the fact that you religious are don't let anyone try to distarct you from your faith but always try to keep a open mind thats all anyone can ask...thanks u Leon..

This is so unbelievebly hard to do. You have two sides of the spectrum, tugging and pulling the hell out of you trying to force you to believe what they believe you should think, feel and be when all I want to do is what God tells you to or in someone else's case, be who you want to be.

wisp

29-08-2007, 04:15 PM

This is so unbelievebly hard to do. You have two sides of the spectrum, tugging and pulling the hell out of you trying to force you to believe what they believe you should think, feel and be when all I want to do is what God tells you to or in someone else's case, be who you want to be.

I can imagine it is hard , but at the end of the day if you are tolerant of others differences and can include your religion into that tolerance and not wavering on your beliefs you will be the better person from it.

I am not religous at all ,in fact the opposite, but i respect is what it is all about and if some one is unwavering amd steadfast in there beliefs yet can accept everyone else's views and not try to impose those beliefs on the other person then they are truly "blessed with wisdom" so to speak.

Gldm

29-08-2007, 04:46 PM

Remind me to kiss Miktar in front of Nimue sometime.

Anyway, before my last post sets over the horizon, I suppose I should make good on my promise to explain my reasoning on the subject of male-specific homophobia.

I don't want to have to do a 4 page Demystified on Human Sexuality, though if it comes to it I will and I'm qualified to. I passed both Sex and Relationships as well as Variations in Human Sexuality at University.

Anyway, where to start. The double standards with male/female split almost always derive from the dominant gender status of society. We have a male-dominated society, though a very mild one in this day and age, but it's still there. Most males consider themselves inherently superior to females. Logic and facts mean nothing to this psychological attribute, it's ingrained quite early during the stage when we start learning how people function in different roles, such as mom vs dad, teacher vs doctor, boy vs girl, kid vs adult, etc. It's not set in stone and it's not guaranteed to be there in everyone, but because it's a pervasive cultural tone that comes out of the background it's very close to universal in presence if not magnitude. It tends to create a set of "default responses" to social situations, and few people ever really examine or question it since "it's always been that way" from their perspective.

Now, this eventually works its way into notions of sexuality when they develop. Usually homosexual prejudice doesn't really develop properly until notions of sexuality do. Anything before the whole "girls/boys are icky!" stage ends is generally an emulated pattern of response and not an actual judgment call. Usually during this phase the difference between male and female is the other group dresses funny and doesn't usually like the same toys you do and that's about it. However, that doesn't mean that attitudes towards sexual behavior are not learned during this time, and most likely some basic concepts have been strongly imprinted before puberty even starts.

Usually by the time puberty hits most males have got the concept in their heads that they are going to be "in charge" when it comes to sex. A lot of things reinforce this, some of them quite subtle. But since the society is still male-dominated, they go with the assumption that when it comes to sex they're going to call the shots. A lot of females also get this idea which can lead to problems later on when they think they just have to grin and bear the incompetent efforts of some bumbling teenage boy because it's "not proper" to tell them how to unhook a bra, lest they brand you as a "slut" or some other derogatory term for a female who acknowledges she knows more about her own anatomy than someone who hasn't even read the instruction manual or taken the defensive driving class for it.

So, where is all this going? Well male homosexuality brings an interesting dilemma to the male psychology. When sex involves a male and a female, there's no question who's "in charge". When it's two (or more) males, that presents a problem. This often leads to a very uncomfortable realization that the answer may be "not you", depending on who the other male is, and that's upsetting, because it means a loss of power and control. It's essentially similar to a threat of rape, which is indeed all about power as the experts (and most victims including myself) claim.

Now female homosexuality doesn't cause the same crisis for a male, because there's a general perception that they're just "messing around", and as soon as a male shows up he's obviously going to be "in charge", because he's "obviously" superior. So that will "straighten those lesbians right out" and he'll have lots of fun. Not usually true in reality, but that's how the subconscious mental process that evaluates relative dominance (critical for any social animal) plays it out based on defaults that have been learned way earlier from observing social interactions.

From the female perspective (and this is mostly through my discussion of this with them), male homosexuality is not as much of a problem, as there's no fear of loss of status or control. If anything it just means more of a good thing or watching males embarrass themselves, which is always highly amusing from their perspective. Female homosexuality also has a more neutral view since for many that's not what they're looking for but again there's no real dominance threat.

This kind of dominance system also shows itself in the whole "masculine activities are fine for females, but feminine ones aren't for males" duality mentioned earlier in the thread. Males don't perceive masculine females as a threat, because they're still female and the whole "obvious superiority" thing kicks in. However they do worry about being portrayed as feminine, because it could lead to dominance by other males. Not necessarily sexually, but overall in a social context most males don't want to appear feminine because of exactly this issue, they don't want a "more male" male to come along and put them lower on the ladder, so they try to avoid showing this kind of behavior (in public) when possible.

So, much of the homophobic reactionism to gay males is from the discomfort it creates for males who don't want to have to worry about not being in control of a sexual situation. As I mentioned above, it's roughly akin to a rape threat, since they expect to have the power by default and any indication otherwise is upsetting. Since most of them can't really conceive of a reasonably attractive female they wouldn't want to have sex with, and they consider themselves attractive, they assume any gay male will automatically want to have sex with them, since they would with a female. Obviously these perceptions are not universally true, but they're mostly so heavily reinforced in cultures worldwide that it's the status quo. I've found from talking to people with these kinds of fears they almost always have the concept that someone in a gay relationship has to be "the woman", and that such a role is permanent and inflexible. They don't really have a concept of a negotiated relationship, and many times this can cause friction with females who aren't totally down with the whole guy running the show bit.

So if I left anything out let me know and I'll fix that.

Azimuth

29-08-2007, 05:00 PM

This kind of dominance system also shows itself in the whole "masculine activities are fine for females, but feminine ones aren't for males" duality mentioned earlier in the thread. Males don't perceive masculine females as a threat, because they're still female and the whole "obvious superiority" thing kicks in. However they do worry about being portrayed as feminine, because it could lead to dominance by other males. Not necessarily sexually, but overall in a social context most males don't want to appear feminine because of exactly this issue, they don't want a "more male" male to come along and put them lower on the ladder, so they try to avoid showing this kind of behavior (in public) when possible.

I absolutely agree with this, but I suspect there may be a little more to it than that.

"Masculine" pursuits are considered (in light of everything you've already stated about societal norms and perception) to be worthwhile, while "feminine" activities are considered petty and frivolous, and a general waste of time. Of course, a girl wanting to be more like the boys is fine, because she's, you know, doing something constructive.

Gldm

29-08-2007, 05:09 PM

I absolutely agree with this, but I suspect there may be a little more to it than that.

"Masculine" pursuits are considered (in light of everything you've already stated about societal norms and perception) to be worthwhile, while "feminine" activities are considered petty and frivolous, and a general waste of time. Of course, a girl wanting to be more like the boys is fine, because she's, you know, doing something constructive.

What part of "male-dominated society" did you not get? Duh! If the males run the show, everything they do MUST be important, and everything they don't is just time-wasting fluff. It's just a secondary echo of the same structure. :)

Nandrew

29-08-2007, 06:36 PM

Toi

30-08-2007, 08:18 AM

24 hours away from this thread and it has run an insane course in my absence. This constructive and enlightening discussion is intolerable.

However, I'll let it slide because I saw the term "grok". Repeatedly.

I believe that this thread has just made my day.

I have to say, I really do love the gaming threads but I have never had so much fun in a thread, if one could call it that.

I really do find homosexuality very interesting and would like to know more, you know; about the wheels that make it turn. I think that it's because it's physically and emotionally so much more different than what I have experienced so far in my life.

Gldm, where does friendship fit into the whole picture? I'll tell you why I ask; what if two guys have a really strong friendship bond right, and then through this they form a relationship. I mean, they aren't in love or anything, maybe not even attracted to one another but this strong friendship bond that they have is what keeps them together, could that be possible? I hope it makes sense; I'm struggling to put what I want to say down in words at the moment. ;)

See, I saw this gay couple right, I didn't know that they were gay until my friend told me they were. They just looked like two buddies, didn't show a lot of affection, whether this was because of fear of what others might think, personal preference or maybe respecting those around them I know but they just, didn't.

wisp

30-08-2007, 09:06 AM

@ GLDM thank you for that in depth summary of the subject at hand , if that doesn't make things very clear for all and sundry then i don't know of any other way to explain it to them :)

Nandrew

30-08-2007, 12:44 PM

Gldm, where does friendship fit into the whole picture? I'll tell you why I ask; what if two guys have a really strong friendship bond right, and then through this they form a relationship. I mean, they aren't in love or anything, maybe not even attracted to one another but this strong friendship bond that they have is what keeps them together, could that be possible? I hope it makes sense; I'm struggling to put what I want to say down in words at the moment. ;)

I'll just throw in a note here: my own Best Frend Evar(TM) is female, but our relationship is purely platonic. We're very close, but we don't snog and stuph.

It's quite possible to establish a relationship like that even if the two parties concerned are sexually oriented towards one another. The situation pretty much, well, just permits it sometimes.

Gldm

30-08-2007, 01:52 PM

I have to say, I really do love the gaming threads but I have never had so much fun in a thread, if one could call it that.

I really do find homosexuality very interesting and would like to know more, you know; about the wheels that make it turn. I think that it's because it's physically and emotionally so much more different than what I have experienced so far in my life.

Gldm, where does friendship fit into the whole picture? I'll tell you why I ask; what if two guys have a really strong friendship bond right, and then through this they form a relationship. I mean, they aren't in love or anything, maybe not even attracted to one another but this strong friendship bond that they have is what keeps them together, could that be possible? I hope it makes sense; I'm struggling to put what I want to say down in words at the moment. ;)

See, I saw this gay couple right, I didn't know that they were gay until my friend told me they were. They just looked like two buddies, didn't show a lot of affection, whether this was because of fear of what others might think, personal preference or maybe respecting those around them I know but they just, didn't.

Friendship fits in the same way as for everyone else. Usually it's difficult for a friend-type bond to transition to a lover-type bond, and vice-versa. It can and does happen though, but usually there's a separation period first. My ex and I are best friends now, but I'm not really interested in sleeping with him anymore. Sometimes you'll find relationships that have decayed to platonic friendships but still maintain themselves. Quite a few couples wind up in situations like that because they're either afraid to leave for fear of not finding anyone else or just don't want to admit the relationship failed on the higher level.

Some of us have a bit more flexible definition of friendship than others. I'd gladly mate with any of my friends that wanted to, as they're friends and I don't consider that a big deal. Levels of displayed affection vary from person to person a lot as well, in both straight and gay couples from what I've seen. I'll often hug Miktar at various points during the day but I'm not about to go make out in the parking lot at work. People who can't seem to stop kissing each other every 2 minutes (gay or straight) seem to irritate me for some reason. I think different people are just comfortable with different levels of public display.

Nandrew

30-08-2007, 03:47 PM

Sometimes you'll find relationships that have decayed to platonic friendships but still maintain themselves. Quite a few couples wind up in situations like that because they're either afraid to leave for fear of not finding anyone else or just don't want to admit the relationship failed on the higher level.

It also depends on how you view friendships (which seems to differ from person to person). There's some people who'll treat close friendships on par with (thought quite separate from) romantic relationships, and others who'll move from relationships like that to platonic friendships because they find that they prefer the particular brand of intimacy that a platonic friendship provides for them.

People who can't seem to stop kissing each other every 2 minutes (gay or straight) seem to irritate me for some reason.

You know, I feel the same. I think it's because it grinds me as attention whoring. "HAY guyz! We're lovas! Look at us! Over here! See that? We totally kissed there."

Of course, calling them out on such behaviour is considered a far bigger social booboo. Mebbe cause you're "oppressing their happiness" or some similar rubbish. <_<

Paradox

30-08-2007, 04:24 PM

Wow, your post really puts things in perspective Gldm. I could never really understand why there is such a outcry or homophobia with gay males, but not gay females. And now it all clicks :)

Myself, I have never had a problem with gay people of either gender, hell, I am Bi myself and my best friend is a lesbian. (I'm male just btw >_>)

Regarding the kissing in public, I agree with nandrew, its a cry for attention.

Q-Man

30-08-2007, 05:02 PM

I will join everyone else in commending gldm for that insightful post. Very interesting reading.

Like Nandrew said, friendship is very different for everyone. My best friend and I dated for 2 months before breaking it off, and we were still best friends after that (sort of like a "hey, why not, let's see where that goes") in our case it was obviously not an easy step for our relationship. I believe that your lover/partner/husband/wife SHOULD be your best friend, but that's not to say that your best friend would make your ideal lover/partner/husband/wife.

But it all depends on what you see as a friend, or a best friend for that matter. People are friends with people for different reasons. And best friends are best friends for different reasons - and while those reasons are excellent for friendship - they may not translate well to a sexual relationship or otherwise.

To me, relationships transcend gender; that is to say that guy-guy, girl-girl, guy-girl; it's the same game, just different players, and that's perfectly fine.

As for kissing in public, well, there are limits. I peck, or a smooch I really don't have a problem with. But if you're going to make out, please find a room or a car or something. Then again, it's not so bad considering people at my university have full-on sex on the grass at 3pm in broad daylight :P but still, the sound-effects are gross and I'd much rather not have to listen to it right next to me.

pfangirl

31-08-2007, 11:01 AM

That's them thar bruised ego talking, my boy.

Interesting point about the female writers, though. Still, I'd like confirmation of its occurrence before I comment too thoroughly on the issue. Anybody around to enlighten us?

I remember ads placed twice in the mag (and on the website) in 2004 - in around June as well as at the end of year. If I remember correctly, the result of that was a femme who wrote for a while in 2005; then promptly vanished.

Now, of course, there's Dammit and Az.

I ended up writing for the competition. ;)

Miktar

31-08-2007, 11:36 AM

Competition? I didn't know NAG had competition. Unless you're talking about G.E.A.R., in which case, I believe you're under the wrong assumption.

GEAR and NAG co-exist due to them appealing to different markets.

Nandrew

31-08-2007, 11:58 AM

"Competition? There's no competition! Not around here, no sirree! You must be mad."

But let's not jump altogether *too* hastily to bring out that point, Miktar. ^^

[/ragging]

Gldm

31-08-2007, 03:15 PM

wisp

31-08-2007, 03:18 PM

Miktar

31-08-2007, 03:26 PM

Just a guess but maybe PCF considers themselves opossition.just a thought

That would be idiotic.

wisp

31-08-2007, 03:29 PM

That would be idiotic.

Strue but u never know , people get delusions of granduer now and then you know

Miktar

31-08-2007, 03:32 PM

What's grandeur got to do with it? PCF is a PC Lifestyle magazine, NAG is Specialist Gaming Press - we don't talk to the same people, even though there is a modicum of overlap.

wisp

31-08-2007, 03:34 PM

What's grandeur got to do with it? PCF is a PC Lifestyle magazine, NAG is Specialist Gaming Press - we don't talk to the same people, even though there is a modicum of overlap.

Then who else could she be writing for then....

wisp

31-08-2007, 03:39 PM

I remember ads placed twice in the mag (and on the website) in 2004 - in around June as well as at the end of year. If I remember correctly, the result of that was a femme who wrote for a while in 2005; then promptly vanished.

Now, of course, there's Dammit and Az.

I ended up writing for the competition. ;)

So pray tell for whom do you write for?

Gambit

31-08-2007, 03:45 PM

So pray tell for whom do you write for?

She writes/wrote for GEAR

Check her website out - www.pfangirl.bravehost.com

wisp

31-08-2007, 03:51 PM

She writes/wrote for GEAR

Check her website out - www.pfangirl.bravehost.com

Thanks for clearing that up Gambit

Thaumaturge

03-09-2007, 04:00 AM

That's a very interesting discussion of, as you put it, male-specific homophobia, Gldm - well reasoned and well put. Thank you for it! ^_^

In answer, two other potential causes occur to me.

As a context, consider that a male heterosexual viewpoint will likely have had historical prominence over other views, given the already-mentioned predominance of males in society and historical prejudices regarding homosexuality.

1) Most simply, it seems to me that heterosexual males will generally be far less interested in seeing other males in a sexual context than females. Thus a scene involving two females allows the pair to have sex without there being another male present to "spoil" the picture.

2) A heterosexual male may well view another male as potential competition for females, and females as potential sexual partners (a distinction which may well happen well below the cognitive level of recognition or taking into account of the sexual orientation of another). In this case, a scene involving two women has two potential mates, a scene with one male and one female one potential competition and one potential mate respectively, and a scene with two males no potential mates and two potential sources of competition.

(I think that the difference between my second idea and your idea, Gldm, is that yours seems to me to focus on the perception that the person viewing the sexual scene has of himself, where I am focussing on their perception of others.)

Of course, some, none or all of the above (Gldm's suggestion included) might be in action at any given time, I daresay.

As to friendship and romance (and I'll freely admit that my experience isn't as great as it might be), I personally have thus far found a transition from friendship to romance to be the easiest and most effective (in terms of building something solid). A friendship that turns into a romance should hopefully at least come with greater knowledge of each other than a romance started as that, which, I think, can help.

Ruandre

06-09-2007, 11:07 AM

Remind me to kiss Miktar in front of Nimue sometime.Man on man action, whoo! ;)

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n239/skullhozer/AfterHours.gif

Q-Man

06-09-2007, 11:18 AM

Man on man action, whoo! ;)

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n239/skullhozer/AfterHours.gif

ROFL

I seriously LOL'd IRL right there bwahahaa

Ruandre

06-09-2007, 11:21 AM

Note: that's from After Hours (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088680/).

Miktar

06-09-2007, 11:21 AM

Do you two need a room?

Ruandre

06-09-2007, 11:22 AM

Who, me? Couldn't be!

Q-Man

06-09-2007, 11:43 AM

Do you two need a room?

I prefer to live by John Legend's song, PDA. A room doesn't quite cut it.

Miktar

06-09-2007, 11:45 AM

Got nothing else to contribute today? Neither of you have made a new thread in a while...

DaBaish

06-09-2007, 03:41 PM

It looks like Miktar's organising a Brothel for Q-man and Ruandre, who apparently seem to be new members of the village people.

Ummm...about the descussion of competition a few threads before.
I thought PC Format and NAG were rivals.

Miktar

06-09-2007, 03:49 PM

I thought PC Format and NAG were rivals.

We're not, as I explained before.

Chevron

06-09-2007, 04:08 PM

I thought PC Format and NAG were rivals.

I just buy both. :)

Ruandre

06-09-2007, 05:25 PM

...who apparently seem to be new members of the village people.Young man, there's no need to feel down. I said, young man, la la la la la la, hey! :)

</spam>

Edit: Seriously though, gender stereotyping sucks, and stuff.

DaBaish

06-09-2007, 05:36 PM

We're not, as I explained before.

But Miks, how can you guys not be? Is it because the NAG sales are insanely higher than PCF, because you don't see yourself as rivals to them relentless the sales or is it because NAG doesn't like being referred as "rivals" towards PCFormat.

If it's the 3rd one...there's never any harm in some good competition! ^ ^

Q-Man

06-09-2007, 05:38 PM

But Miks, how can you guys not be? Is it because the NAG sales are insanely higher than PCF or is it because you don't see yourself as rivals to them relentless the sales?

Read the thread. Miktar's already said it's because NAG and PCF have different target audiences.

Miktar

06-09-2007, 05:55 PM

But Miks, how can you guys not be? Is it because the NAG sales are insanely higher than PCF, because you don't see yourself as rivals to them relentless the sales or is it because NAG doesn't like being referred as "rivals" towards PCFormat.

If it's the 3rd one...there's never any harm in some good competition! ^ ^

I'm not going to repeat myself. Learn to read the threads properly, or you will find yourself banned.

Nandrew

06-09-2007, 06:05 PM

You know ... that kissing pic strikes me as rather gay.

dammit

06-09-2007, 08:42 PM

After almost an hour of reading through this entire thread, I decided that effort awarded me the chance to post my Two Cents worth...

I must say, this has been one of the most fasinating threads on nag thus far, including one that died not so long ago talking about sexual identities. @ GLDM, thanks for the insightful posts (in both of those threads in fact).

What I just want to add to the gender 'wars' thread: It is damn frustrating living in a time when people feel like having "womens rights" is actually helping. Having to put in place 'seperate' rights just underlines the fact that soceity is still very much patriachal.

Also, most of the girls i know (of which very few are interested in gaming sadly) struggle a lot when deciding "how" they want to be. We can "be anything" but most come with clauses in fine writing at the bottom of the page. You can be a doctor, but expect to be treated as less qualified than your male counterparts. You can be a farmer, and get special attention because you are a "female farmer" and thus unusual. You can be outwardly intelligent, independant, social and sexual but there are few groups in society that will totally accept that behaviour in females.

Honestly, I feel, and I think a lot of women/girls feel the same, that I'm running up against a brick wall at every turn. Sometimes it seems much easier to just fall into the pre-defined role of a woman.

*sigh*

PS: I only played with barbies at my friends house because she had the horse that belongs with barbie. At home I played Lego :D

Thaumaturge

07-09-2007, 01:15 AM

I have little more to add, but this:

I don't claim to know what's right for you, but I will say that I'm saddened by the thought of someone ending up being other than who they are. I hope that I am correct in gathering from your post that you haven't bowed to such pressure. ^_^

Miktar

07-09-2007, 09:56 AM

I constantly feel like a man living in a woman's world. It's unfair.

brazed

07-09-2007, 10:16 AM

Try being a dragon...

Miktar

07-09-2007, 10:24 AM

Try being a dragon...

Pssh. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. :P

brazed

07-09-2007, 10:31 AM

Hehe.

Don't youy miss having such a big...tail?

Miktar

07-09-2007, 10:35 AM

A minorex has a respectably big tail, thank you very much.

brazed

07-09-2007, 10:39 AM

Damn cross-breeds...

Allthough, I don't mind crossing that barrier from time to time, I mean, not as if there are millions of dragons around.

Miktar

07-09-2007, 10:45 AM

I can't help it my parents were overly frisky. Besides, once you've had minotaur-tyrannosaurus-rex, you never go back.

brazed

07-09-2007, 10:52 AM

So they say...

But then, nothing beet a nice romp with a dragon. Granted, I'm usually the only one left alive after such an activity, but ag wat. We're over-populated as it is.

Chevron

07-09-2007, 11:41 AM

I constantly feel like a man living in a woman's world. It's unfair.

Me too. I think that "bring a girl child to work day" is totally unfair and blatantly sexist, but no one cares.

If the sexes are equal it should just be "bring a child to work day".

Also if the sexes are supposed to be equal why is there a "womens day" but no "mens day"?

Try to correct inequalities by bringing in more inequalities won't work.

Same thing with affirmative action. If all races are equal blacks shouldn't be favoured when applying for a job(a black woman being most favoured).

Azimuth

07-09-2007, 11:59 AM

Same thing with affirmative action. If all races are equal blacks shouldn't be favoured when applying for a job(a black woman being most favoured).

Affirmative action in South Africa has nothing to do with racial equality, but rather attempts to make up for decades of discrimination that have left black people clinging on lower socioeconomic rungs than everyone else.

dammit

07-09-2007, 02:07 PM

Womens day, womens rights, girl-child-to-work-day = actually just highlight any percieved "seperateness" or "difference." [A distinction made in language always results in a mental distinction and not always the other way round]

We are all just people. Wish everyone would act like it.

Gldm

07-09-2007, 02:13 PM

So they say...

But then, nothing beet a nice romp with a dragon. Granted, I'm usually the only one left alive after such an activity, but ag wat. We're over-populated as it is.

So where do I sign up? :)

Chevron

07-09-2007, 03:01 PM

So where do I sign up? :)

Lol. After my, Azimuth's and dammit's posts I was expecting one of Gldm's usually insightful and thought provoking posts.

Sigh...

TriggerHappy

07-09-2007, 03:29 PM

Lifes too short for everyone to be happy. Bring out womens day and men will complain, bring out mens day and women will complain. But wasn't 'Womens Day' an aniversery for something?

The thing is everyone wants to be more special than everyone else, thats why we put down others to make our gender/race/whatever look better. Without people to step on, how can you get to the top? If everyone was equal there wouldn't be a top to get to and you'll be special just like everyone else. There is no light without shadow and I don't think we will all be equal. :(

Obviously I don't mean that everyone is like that , I do think there are more good people in this world than bad, and this is a very pessimistic way of looking at it but I'm only looking at the negitive. But I still am a fool that blindly believes in world peace and equality for all. I'm feeling so emo now...

Gldm

07-09-2007, 04:18 PM

Lol. After my, Azimuth's and dammit's posts I was expecting one of Gldm's usually insightful and thought provoking posts.

Sigh...

Very well then.

I'm not a big Affirmative Action fan. In fact I was constantly getting into fights during my early years at San Francisco State University when Proposition 209 was on the voting ballot for the upcoming California election. Prop 209 was worded such that it required "all state agencies or those that receive state funding to treat all applicants equally, under penalty of law". The problem is, this would nix AA. Well there were constantly people going around campus trying to get me to sign petitions against it. I would routinely tell them I was in favor of it, much to their shock and horror. When asked why, I would then use logic to beat the crap out of their arguments, such as prop 209 includes all races, plus gays/transgenders, plus women, plus age brackets, instead of just 2-3 racial minorities.

Maybe I was a bit biased from my prior experiences when graduating highschool. My parents had to work hard and spent a lot to send me to college. Meanwhile all the non-white kids in my class who's parents earned about $200,000-500,000 US a year (not kidding, rich areas nearby) would get free rides and jump straight to the admissions queues everywhere, even with worse grades than mine. Why? Because the schools needed to meet quotas.

I'm hard pressed to think of a bigger oxymoron than "mandatory diversity". Yes I feel bad that some people were oppressed in the past. I try to hold myself to a high standard of always being fair to everyone I meet, and growing up in NY you'll find many people like that. Race matters little in that city, and it's one of its better traits if you ask me. It's not perfect, but it's better than some others I've seen.

The thing is having blanket affirmative action policies doesn't take into account individual circumstances. You're just tilting the playing field the other way, and the poor will always roll out the bottom, regardless of their color. I don't think there's any real way to address the historical oppression of people by rewarding their descendants. In effect you're punishing the descendants of those who did not have any part in the oppression but share the same ethnic background as the few who did. It's not reverse discrimination, it's just discrimination period.

That means the only real way to get balance is to allow it to take its natural course. If the playing field is leveled eventually it will work out for everyone, but people want it instantaneously. In my opinion that's just going to do more harm on top of other harms of the past. Yes you may get some people up the ladder faster, but then you'll have another group who got the short end of the stick from the means you used to do that.

Now as for the male-female thing. I do still believe society is patriarchal. Not nearly as strongly as it was even in my grandfather's days, but still somewhat. However, in some cases we see women being as unfairly favored as men are in others. Take child custody for example. A woman has to be pretty much a destitute drug abusing jobless reject for a court to award a child to the father. Even the shortest marriages seem to result in alimony payments to the wife. Even if she's remarried an even richer husband!

Plus, as much as everyone wants to ignore the elephant in the room, I'll say it. Women can get sex pretty much any time they want. They know this, and use it to advantage. Yes men and other women call them bad names for it, and that is wrong. Does any of this counterbalance males' higher salaries or other benefits? Maybe, maybe not. The thing is it's going to take time for these to equalize because they're how the culture is ingrained. One problem we seem to be having is I've heard some women complain of a lack of "masculine" males. We've all heard the whole "the ******* gets the girl while the nice guy is her best friend" thing, and there is some truth to that. It's partially ingrained in social and genetic conditioning, and to overcome these things as a species we must put in the effort. But I rarely see girls going up to talk to guys the times I go out to a club. Certainly they almost never talk to me. We're making an effort to treat women more fairly in the workplace, or at least I like to think we are. I just wish they'd make a bit more effort in the social sphere. Maybe they are and I'm just not seeing it. I'm not sure.