Zuma and the Church

[Lysis]

wow... you live in a dangerous area. Yes there was attempts to brake in at my house to, but they never succeed. Besides, would you rather sleep with your window open knowing other people are being oppressed because of their skin colour?

I think that wisp was inferring that things were better, not because people were being oppressed for their skin colour, but rather because the police force was actually effective. Our police force today isn't.

[Chuluka]

I know this topic refers to Zuma and the church but I feel a general discussion about anything relating to Zuma is legitimate.

This article provides an interesting read.

[onona]

They gave examples of missions in the prisons where convicted killers turn to God and turn from their ways.

Prisoners don't turn to religion because they "find God". They turn to religion because it's a crutch for them in prison; it's human nature to seek out comfort in times of hardship. I've always maintained that one of the primary reasons why people find religion is desperation, a state of mind that impairs one's sense of rationality, which is a predicament many find themselves in when going to prison, as they can feel abandoned by society, and alone. So what better idea for them than a guy who loves them regardless of what despicable crimes they've done? Having an imaginary friend is probably one of the most ideal comforts for a prisoner, especially one on a long sentence.

I also think it allows them to free themselves of much of the mental burden they may feel for their crimes, because religion gives them that wonderfully convenient excuse that "Satan tempted them" or, even better, that they were "possessed by evil spirits", which kinda absolves them of much of the responsibility for their actions.

Nevermind the fact that "finding God" looks good on their parole application.

I wonder what real options are there for South Africa and how we can solve matters like crime, family abuse, greed and corruption. The message of the conference was to push being unashamedly ethical in our workplace, family and elsewhere in our country.

Religion should be kept as far away from the government and running of the state as possible. The moment religion becomes involved, you end up with human rights violations like gays being prevented from being married. South Africa is a secular state, and should remain as one.

Also, religion is not necessary for an ethical or moral society. Religion and ethics, while having overlaps, are separate, and can exist without one another. It is a common misconception amongst the religious that the absence of religion = lack of morals, because morality is totally independent of religious faith, and indeed flourishes without it.

Politicians using religious organisations to curry favour is a cheap and shallow tact that only impresses the uneducated.

[BattleMoose]

Religion should be kept as far away from the government and running of the state as possible. The moment religion becomes involved, you end up with human rights violations like gays being prevented from being married. South Africa is a secular state, and should remain as one.

Also, religion is not necessary for an ethical or moral society. Religion and ethics, while having overlaps, are separate, and can exist without one another. It is a common misconception amongst the religious that the absence of religion = lack of morals, because morality is totally independent of religious faith, and indeed flourishes without it.

QFFT

[BlackMage]

the White Knight strikes again.

[wisp]

I think that wisp was inferring that things were better, not because people were being oppressed for their skin colour, but rather because the police force was actually effective. Our police force today isn't.

exactly...one could sleep well back then

[Sir PaniCore]

Religeon should not mix with government since god or a higher deity is not a proven theory and may not exist it should have no place in government or law

[brazed]

exactly...one could sleep well back then

The policeFORCE was only aimed at keeping the white people safe, and crime in the townships were never fully reported on or acted on. So no, they weren't more effective at all.

[onona]

and crime in the townships were never fully reported on or acted on.

Kinda like today, really :/

[BattleMoose]

The policeFORCE was only aimed at keeping the white people safe, and crime in the townships were never fully reported on or acted on. So no, they weren't more effective at all.

I was under the impression, its worse in the townships today?

[Ch@pS]

I think wisp was talking from a white persons perspective, with that in mind it makes sense.

Kinda like today, really :/

This

I was under the impression, its worse in the townships today?

And this.

[BattleMoose]

Well?

[brazed]

We'll never know. They weren't reported on. Saying they are worse today without ANY refference, aside from apartheid data ( :/ ) is akin to saying I think my foot smells better today than 4 febuary 1997.

[BattleMoose]

We'll never know. They weren't reported on. Saying they are worse today without ANY refference, aside from apartheid data ( :/ ) is akin to saying I think my foot smells better today than 4 febuary 1997.

If that is a response to my initial post, I do request that you read my post more carefully, I will even highlight the bits that I would like you to pay extra attention to.

I was under the impression, its worse in the townships today?

Its quite difficult to bold a question mark, but it is indeed bolded.

[brazed]

Well, things are always worse now than they were, right? People tend to forget how bad things were.

[BattleMoose]

Well, things are always worse now than they were, right? People tend to forget how bad things were.

You are assuming far too much about what I haven't said.

[brazed]

You are assuming far too much about what I haven't said.

errr, not quite. I'm being about as general as I can be. As in 'the grass is always greener"...etc

[Telur]

errr, not quite. I'm being about as general as I can be. As in 'the grass is always greener"...etc

.....because the manure is deeper on the other side?