24: Tabletop TF2

[Evil_Toaster]

Uh... hide a really thin keyboard under the board (riding over it a few times with your car might flatten it sufficiently), and via a complicated arrangement of levers, pulleys, elastic bands and judicious amounts of voodoo, contrive to get it to stroke particular keys when marker's are placed on certain blocks. It's quite simple after that... :P

(Nope, I have no clue about doing custom electronics...)

[dammit]

Okay, so the game finally made it up to CT for a play test. Things didn't go quite as I'd hoped, though this probably because of the accidental cheating since I'd never played with an uneven team make up.

Very different feedback, naturally, than from the other play tests and I'm probably going to do a big overhaul of the card and range systems (they'll probably be incorporated together into the cards which would reduce the need for the reference sheets).

The tokens still need to be finished (with their symbols and move ranges added to the top).

So yeah, lots of work! Will keep this thread updated because this is a project I'm really quite proud of and enjoying working on :)

Edit: I am mildly horrified that I left CT without pics of this particular play test. :<

[dislekcia]

Don't change the game too much, it's fun and the throwdown mechanic is rad :)

Random idea from 5 minutes ago: Have you tried simultaneous turns? Could speed up the game quite nicely.

[dammit]

Don't change the game too much, it's fun and the throwdown mechanic is rad :)

Random idea from 5 minutes ago: Have you tried simultaneous turns? Could speed up the game quite nicely.

^_^ The mechanics won't change, I don't expect, so fear not.

I'm not really sure how simultaneous turns would work. Two people going at the same time (one red; one blue?)? How do you determine end of turn things (like refilling your hand)? Or whole teams moving together? And wouldn't that lead to all sorts of awkward... chases? Where you're expecting to move *here* and attack and someone else is moving making it hard to strategise? I'll give it some thought, definitely.

[dammit]

Competition from Valve.

[Fengol]

I think you need to get help spamming Valve about your game!

[henniedebeer]

This looks so good...where can I order the board? I only have an A4 printer...

[dammit]

There are some printer shops that'll print on bigger paper :)

[henniedebeer]

Yep. There is one in Centurion that can print up to A0, if you want to. And on all types of media, even film. (That would be so cool)

[dammit]

Yep. There is one in Centurion that can print up to A0, if you want to. And on all types of media, even film. (That would be so cool)

Well there you go. Just download it and print it yourself. You don't need to order it from me :P

[henniedebeer]

Well there you go. Just download it and print it yourself. You don't need to order it from me :P

Yeah... I don't live there anymore, enjoying the countryside and the finer things in life these days.

But I'll give them a call and see if they can do it.

[dammit]

Had a flash of genius over the weekend about simultaneous play! Will sit down and make the important changes and update this thread by the end of the week. Really excited to upgrade this project :)

[dislekcia]

This makes me happy :)

[dammit]

Simultaneous Play

The game will require a cardboard disk with a pointer that can rotate to each of the nine segments on the disk. A round is now made up of 8 phases (since the scout has a maximum of 8 moves not including the double jump). Essentially, what will happen is a round will commence and the disk pointer will be moved to the number 1 segment. Everyone will complete their phase (options of what you can do in each phase below) and then battles will be initiated and solved. Then the pointer moves to the next segment. Tokens killed come back into play after a certain number of phases (still need to figure this one out; possibly 3 or 4 phases).

In a phase the player may do one of the following (per token):
1. move one block in any direction
2. discard and draw a card
3. declare an attack
4. move one block and declare an attack [weapon cards for that token get a minus 2]
5. engineer token may build a teleporter entrance or exit (the engineer then misses the next two phases to complete the building)
6. tokens may move onto a teleporter block (the token will be teleported in the next phase and may move off the teleporter)

Important note: Tokens still have a limited number of movements allowed per round. So, for example, the heavy has can move 4 blocks in a round. The heavy does not need to move these all at once or even at all, but may not move more than 4 blocks in a round. (This leaves 5 phases wherein the heavy is not moving).

Attacks

As above, one declares an attack in a phase. If there is a situation where a number of attacks are happening to a small number of tokens (ie: 2 tokens attack 1 token) then the person whose name is first in the alphabet solves his/her attack first, followed by the person to his/her left and so on. The next time this happens, the person whose attack was solved second (ie: was left of the first-in-alphabet person) will solve his/her attack first followed by the person to his/her left and so on.

Other

Things that are going to be changed/updated:
1. Teleporter cards will be removed and instead there will be actual teleporter tokens on the board
2. Weapon cards will have ranges and different values for distance and so on
3. More special cards will be added (not sure what yet, but i feel the need for hats :P )
4. Some other rules will be adjusted (I haven't even looked at the old rules yet and I've only just woken up so I'm just saying...)
5. With simultaneous play the medic may change a whole bunch (essentially, in an attack on a token near the medic the medic can play "booster" cards to add to the cards of the token being attacked on the board).
6. May possibly figure out how to work the spy's cloak ability.

Also, once everything is working nicely I'd love to get a video of the game in action up onto youtube or something :)

[dammit]

I've had someone suggest another approach to the changes in the game that I'd like other people to comment on. I think I need other input because I'm biased in wanting to keep my game as I originally designed it because it's mine and not necessarily because it's the best solution :P

Essentially, the game play will work the same as above (simultaneous play) but the cards and tokens themselves will change dramatically. Each token will be equipped with a "weapon" token that it'll stand on. The enemy team will not know what that token is until a battle is initiated. This weapon will give some sort of bonus to the battle. The "weapon" could also turn out to be a disguised spy which will give some sort of spy bonus.

Cards will no longer be class specific nor weapon specific but rather environmental advantages and so on. Battles will work the same way.

Really want input here, guys, so go wild.

[Kharrak]

Well, here's an idea. It allows for cards to be generic and all purpose, but also allows each Token type to act in a diverse manner.

Essentially, the idea is to separate action cards from the "power rating" that plays a part in the combat. Two separate card types.

On one hand, you have your action cards. You draw a hand of these at the beginning of each round.

On the other hand, you have your combat cards. You draw and expend these during each combat.

Action cards can be played at any point during combat, but only serve as modifiers to the Combat cards, and don't have a Damage Rating of their own. Combat cards are drawn from the combat deck at the beginning of each combat, and used in the classic "snap" way.

So, you find yourself in combat. You have two Action Cards which you've had since the beginning of the current round. Since combat has started, you draw five combat cards ( by default).

Your four Combat Cards have a rating of 3, 1, 4, and 7.

Your two Action Cards have the following abilities:

Sandvich: The Combat Rating of your opponents next card is reduced by two.

Flanking: The Combat Rating of your next Combat Card is reduced by two, but the combat rating of your next card is increased by four.

The player then uses the Combat Cards and Action cards in conjunction with each other, keeping in mind that Action cards can only be replenished at the beginning of the next round.

Furthermore, each Token type uses Combat Cards in a unique way.

A few examples:

Sniper

The Sniper draws x amount of Combat Cards, where x is the amount of squares between him and the target. The Sniper then chooses two cards with the highest Combat Rating.

Heavy

The Combat Rating of the Heavy's Combat Cards are lowered by 2, but increase by 1 for every Combat Card the Heavy plays.

Medic

The Medic may participate in a combat in which his patient is involved in. The Medic draws five Combat Cards, but instead plays them so that the Combat Rating of his Combat Cards are subtracted from the Combat Rating of the enemy's Combat Cards.

Spy

The Spy draws four combat cards, then chooses two of those cards, and swaps them with two cards of from the enemy's Combat Cards.

[dammit]

I like the idea of more...complex? cards. I want to add that in anyway.

Okay, since I've had no other input in a week, I think I'm going to stick to my own plan for now. It's easier to envisage my own plan rather than someone else's, and so easier to get it working.

Hopefully I'll have something playtestable fairly soon.

Edit: As a note, the way the double jump, rocket jump etc moves will work is that you'll be able to take those extra movements in one phase. So, essentially, when everyone else is only moving one block, a scout and discard a card to be able to move three blocks. The card will have to be discarded at the beginning of the phase. You won't be able to go decide after everyone has completed their moves that you want to invoke a special move.

The person who discards a card for the sake of a special move may only refill his/her hand after all 8 movement phases (ie: the complete round) is over.

[dislekcia]

Is there any way you could decrease the number of phases? 8 just feels overly complex right now. 3 or 4 is obviously the sweet spot, if you can get there. I'm having trouble figuring out how the movement works when split up across all those different phases.

Question: Do you have anything in mind to deal with deadlocks on movement? You have a deadlock resolution strategy (basically deciding who goes first) in a combat phase, but players might end up waiting until right at the end of their movement phase to actually move in order to be in the best position relative to each other. You could still use the same resolution strategy (or even go anti-clockwise to prevent stacking/unfairness), the main reason for the simulateous turns is removing the advantage 1 player gets from moving into combat in the same cycle while everyone else remains immobile.

It might also be a good idea to have a modified trump system that makes card selection and playing during the snap gameplay more strategic. You could base that on crits.

[dammit]

Is there any way you could decrease the number of phases? 8 just feels overly complex right now. 3 or 4 is obviously the sweet spot, if you can get there. I'm having trouble figuring out how the movement works when split up across all those different phases.

Question: Do you have anything in mind to deal with deadlocks on movement? You have a deadlock resolution strategy (basically deciding who goes first) in a combat phase, but players might end up waiting until right at the end of their movement phase to actually move in order to be in the best position relative to each other. You could still use the same resolution strategy (or even go anti-clockwise to prevent stacking/unfairness), the main reason for the simulateous turns is removing the advantage 1 player gets from moving into combat in the same cycle while everyone else remains immobile.

This, specifically, is something i need to test out in play. I have a number of strategies in mind, but no idea how they'll work til i have a group together pushing the limits of the rules in place. 8 phases makes sense to me at this point, but again, playtests will tell.

It might also be a good idea to have a modified trump system that makes card selection and playing during the snap gameplay more strategic. You could base that on crits.

The cards will ultimately need a full make over to manage the change in the play/turns. I think I may also want to incorporate the dice more...somehow. I'm not entirely sure. Any and all suggestions of card types/values/methods of play welcome :)

[Chippit]

I thought you didn't want to use dice?

MAKE UP YOUR MIND, WOMAN.