Desktop Dungeons

[Nandrew]

@moldar: I have a similar-ish idea that's going to revolve around gold buffing of some kind. Should make it into the next version, so maybe you can comment again when it comes out :)

@mckertis: I think the others have addressed most of your points -- and on several counts, I can agree that DD *does* have elements which may seem strange or useless for new players, but which turn out to make a startling amount of sense once you get good at the game. :P Though I agree: the Bloodmage spell is currently not fantastically useful! That's being changed in the next version.

[coendou]

another suggestion i'd like to make is the making of hotkeys for spells, if you're using a mousepad for wichever reason, fireballing twelve times in a row gets kind of annoying ^^

[moldar]

@Nandrew - I am looking forward to it! If you tell me about when the next version is due, I can schedule some vacation days away from work, since I'll need time to play!

[Speusippus]

Yes, i get that. What i dont get is why would i need to know the percentage. Why is it shown on the HUD ? The attack is already a total number, i dont see what is there to be gained from knowing how many +% you have. Isnt it irrelevant ?

If you have an item (or use a glyph) that augments damage by X%, you won't know what your actual damage will be unless you know what your base damage value is. And you don't know that (given the present UI) except by doing a calculation on your damage amount and your augment percentage.

So for example, if what I see next to "attack" is "12 (+50%)" and I am thinking about using BYCEPPS (+20% damage) then to figure out what my new damage is going to be, I need to figure out what my base damage is. And to figure that out, I have to ask "What is the X such that X + (50% of X) = 12?" X = 8 in this case. So my new damage is going to be 8 + (70% of 8), whatever that turns out to be.

Um, yeah...i'd like to see how its possible to gain level 9 and still have tiles to open. Maybe it could happen, but what are the chances of that ?

It's actually pretty typical. I generally beat the bad guy at level 8 or 9, and I generally have not explored the entire map by that time. (I often have explored the whole labyrinth, but haven't used LEMMISI to explore the whole map.)

[mckertis]

And to figure that out, I have to ask "What is the X such that X + (50% of X) = 12?" X = 8 in this case.

Gosh, just make the game logic use matrices or logariphmic equations, that would be so much simpler ! :P

I am thinking about using BYCEPPS (+20% damage) then to figure out what my new damage is going to be

Except that when you actually use the magic - the total attack number simply tells you what your new attack is, you dont need to do it manually.

Okay, now i see how it is useful (though rather unwieldy for what's claimed to be a 10-minute game). I thought that all bonus damage was from the total number, because thats how it always works. I guess its a manual issue (or rather lack of manual). Please make an attempt to actually document your mechanics, okay ? Okay.

I often have explored the whole labyrinth, but haven't used LEMMISI to explore the whole map.

I see the trick...well...its kinda clever...but at the same time feels cheap.

[Higushi]

Nandrew! Wow man, you've really hit gold with this game of yours! I'm absolutely loving it, and just can't... stop... playing... ok bye now! (I'll give more feedback once the urge to play it every waking second has worn off) :P

*Runs off to continue playing DD*

[icecube]

Gosh, just make the game logic use matrices or logariphmic equations, that would be so much simpler ! :P

Logariphmic? <_<

Anyway, I'm having the hardest time with Berserker. I've beat it with every other character now, but I haven't even come close to killing a boss yet with Berserker :l. They either have too much HP (900+), do too much damage (75+, D:), or are resistant to physical (60% resistance).
Any tips?
EDIT: ^-^ finally got a good boss (magic attack). Unfortunately didn't play it correctly and I died when he had 10 HP left.
EDIT2: Yay, got Aequitas again. Easy kill.

[coendou]

@speussipus: attack=5*level*(100%+extra percentage displayed right of attack) so instead of calculating backwards for bysseps, you could just do 0.2*5*level=level as 0.2*5 is 1, so you just add your current level to your attack basically

[The Dash]

Woah!

Nandrew i found an epic one time bug. No error message, so i'm going to try be specific:

I was a Human Rogue.
New game, just started exploring when i found the alter that requires you to destroy a wall.
The Endiswall glyph was next to me when i started.
I go pick it up, arm it, and click on a wall.
Get the message ("xx lends you some of his strength etc blah blah")
Then i get the message "You die..."
and yes, i was actually dead

My end of level stats:
Damage Dealt: 44
Monsters killed: 100
Boss killed: 0
Exploration: 144
Monsters petrified: 0
Character level: 250

awards:
feeling kinda parched
lay off the spirits


I was at full health, and full mana.
I have only completed the first four characters


Hope that helps, i have no clue how to try replicate it




EDIT: If there is a monster under an black tile directly above you, if you hover your mouse over the tile you can see the bottom of the monsters level. Its not actually a problem, just now i know that there's a monster there. (This is caused by a monsters level being enlarged when the mouse is over it)




Also, is there any punishment for worshiping a god but not completing what the god wants? (IE destroy a wall, but you never do). How about a simple -1000 at the end of the level?

[BlackShipsFillt]

I think I've been killed a couple time by clicking on a monster underneath the black.

However I couldn't replicate the problem, it only happens when I'm not expecting it. I don't have a faulty mouse or anything so I don't know.

[Nandrew]

Gosh, just make the game logic use matrices or logariphmic equations, that would be so much simpler ! :P

Except that when you actually use the magic - the total attack number simply tells you what your new attack is, you dont need to do it manually.

Okay, now i see how it is useful (though rather unwieldy for what's claimed to be a 10-minute game). I thought that all bonus damage was from the total number, because thats how it always works. I guess its a manual issue (or rather lack of manual). Please make an attempt to actually document your mechanics, okay ? Okay.

There's going to be quite a few changes in v0.05 to make it *much* more accessible and "10-minute" oriented for the average user. This includes rearranging some information, adding extra info and throwing in minor combat prediction. I'm trying to balance the information economy to retain meaningful challenges (math-thinkery will still be required for protracted combat, boss battles and long-term decisions!) while removing grinds (for example, requiring too many mathematical steps to predict bonus damage).

If you're looking for a perfectly documented game, however, you'll be sorely disappointed. :P Some areas are deliberately left grey -- not least because this encourages the community to help one another and adds to an individual's sense of achievement when discovering some new and important fact. Nowhere will this philosophy be more apparent than in the revamped deity system of v0.05: gods have become far more complicated already and will, in fact, not wholly dictate their desires, rewards or punishments in advance. This means that players will have to use "common sense" approaches when figuring out a deity's needs and dislikes (based on the personality or theme that said god presents), while leaving room for risk-taking and experimentation. Building a comprehensive picture of a given god's constraints and rewards -- either through raw game experience or by trawling through community comments -- will become a meaningful puzzle in itself.

I see the trick...well...its kinda clever...but at the same time feels cheap.

Ah, but does it break or overly exploit the game? I've heard of a lot of people putting LEMMISI to good use, but there's quite a few spells out there which are considered far more powerful.

[Nandrew]

@BlackShips: I'll look into that and try to replicate your problem. Sounds rather odd, but I think I have an idea of what may be causing it.

Woah!

Nandrew i found an epic one time bug. No error message, so i'm going to try be specific:

Ooh, that's quite a concern! Maybe I'll try getting a "cause of death" message into the next version to help troubleshoot. For now, I can say that your error may be gone by the next version, since I'm revamping the religious system anyway. :)

[Azimuth]

I think I've been killed a couple time by clicking on a monster underneath the black.

However I couldn't replicate the problem, it only happens when I'm not expecting it. I don't have a faulty mouse or anything so I don't know.

I'm sure this has happened to me a few times too.

[The Dash]

Can i please put in a request for an achievement for killing the boss at level 4 or lower? (Im sure im not the only one to do it)

[Delvin]

Heh, I killed the boss once at level 2. Needless to say, you need quite favorable conditions for that ;)

Edit: How do you do it?

The main components for me were poison, fireball, 2x mana regeneration and some luck with a floor without monsters preventing free exploring.

Am now going to try a level one boss kill with a slightly different approach...

[dislekcia]

Can i please put in a request for an achievement for killing the boss at level 4 or lower? (Im sure im not the only one to do it)

What? How'd you do that?

[The Dash]

What? How'd you do that?

Elf assassin, got the Medusa as the boss (forget her real name)

Killed a level 6, which bumped me up to level 4 (if i remember correctly). Then i simply went for it :p

Its incredibly easy once you realize it. Feels almost cheap, but its nice exploring the dungeon afterwords without worrying about reserving mana potions, or converting which glyphs etc

One bug/gripe. Boss's dont seem to give any experience =/

[Shadow_Con]

20000 points to delvin for killing a boss at lvl2. Lol

[Delvin]

Bosses definitely give experience. Just beat medusa with a level 1 human warlord (which I believe is best for the job at L1, due to fireball's low mp/dmg at that point). Instant level 6. Goat would've been even easier and I didn't get as many attack boosts as I could have, so there's definitely some room for average luck :P

[InsertName]

This game is addicting and reminds me slightly of Demon's Souls, I'm not sure why.