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Thread: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

  1. #1

    Default Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    I recently came accross a man by the name of Tim Wise speaking very honestly and openly about the subjects of White Privilege and the legacy of colonialism. Here are three of his speeches:

    Don't listen to these speeches if you aren't interested in the truth.

    Speech 1:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA (he starts making many relevant points from about the 11th minute onwards)

    Speech 2:
    part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ8xQPdjJfM
    part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlqLi...eature=related
    part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQWP7...eature=related
    part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o13Lr...eature=related
    part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VuA_...eature=related
    part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRo_j...eature=related

    Speech 3:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj5vFl-YxaI

    Please watch at least 1 entire speech before commenting because there might be an answer to your repsonse in a speech. I agree completely with Tim Wise as his speeches are filled with truth and relevance. Judging by the youtube rating system (likes/dislikes), I am not alone in this regard. Feel free to discuss the content of his speeches and tell us which speech you are talking about.
    Last edited by David Morrison; 22-11-2010 at 04:50 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Just watched the first speech and man do I like Tim Wise. I'll have to wait to watch the other clips, 1 hour's download ain't going to be much appreciated by the other users of the house :P

    I agree with Tim 100% and yes, White privilege *is* constantly being hidden or avoided being talked about., They (white folk) wipe it under the carpet and hope nobody talks about it, and those who do know about it, simply don't talk about it.

    However, this is largely applied to America, I don't think the same happens here, Here white privilege is always the hot topic, it's also exaggerated, I hear about the white racist and white rich man almost everyday of my life. Many policies have been installed to "justify" the gap that these privileges have created, thus the birth of BEE and AA.

    And even though these policies are being exploited in SA today, They don't really help with the situation at all, with the majority of our very poor still being black.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    I just barely made it past the first 12 minutes, geez that intro was annoying.

    I only watched the first one, not going to do the rest just yet. While I did agree with him on some points the entire thing of "white priviledge" just ****ed me off. Yes it is true that those from European descent are more likely to be priviledged, but then again most of the current system comes from the West and East, doesn't that entitle them to at least a tiny bit of what they created?

    In the Immortal words of Scrubs...



    I'm not buying it.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Aesir I hear what you're saying. Tim Wise talks about entitlement and enjoying what you "ancestors have earned" you.

    Refer to part 6 of the second speech.

    You seem to be down-playing white privilege and the legacy of colonialism. You are acknowleging it as an issue but you seem to be suggesting that is a small issue, when actually, these are massive issues that lead to other issues in our society. These two issues (white privilege and the LEGACY of colonialism) are primary issues while crime, poverty, problems with water electricity etc... are all secondary issues.

    @ Bewarned:

    I don't understand how you can have trouble drawing paralells between the USA and South Africa. To me the simmilarities are as clear as daylight. White privilege most certainly applies to white South Africans. If the truth ****es you off, then there's something seriously wrong. Are you being irritated by people of colour complaining about the injustices of the past which have become the injustices of the present (because they have not been dealt with)? Are you suggesting that complaints about these serious issues are a nuisance to you? Here where I live, white privilege is never a hot topic. I never hear white people talking about white privilege. Tim Wise is the only white person I have heard, talk honestly and openly about these issues. I don't think that white people even think about these issues. I think that they just take all these privileges for granted. Tim Wise said it: "I didn't realise all that but now that I do...WHOA!.."
    Last edited by David Morrison; 22-11-2010 at 10:58 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    Aesir I hear what you're saying. Tim Wise talks about entitlement and enjoying what you "ancestors have earned" you.

    You seem to be down-playing white privilege and the legacy of colonialism. You are acknowleging it as an issue but you seem to be suggesting that is a small issue, when actually, these are massive issues that lead to other issues in our society. These two issues (white privilege and the LEGACY of colonialism) are primary issues while crime, poverty, problems with water electricity etc... are all secondary issues.
    1- Link doesn't work.

    2- "what you ancestors have earned you", this is the basis for most "whites opressed us" arguements for some reason but when it is flipped around no-one seems to like it. Yes you may say that my ancestors treated you badly and excluded you from opportunities, yet these opportunities were brought here by the settlers.

    3- I never said it was an issue and I never will as per my previous post. I really don't see what White priviledge and crime, poverty etc have to do with each other. Can you explain?

    4- Please don't take this as me being racist it's not but lets be honest here, if Jan van Riebeeck did not land in SA would it currently be a second world country (lol?) or like the rest of Africa?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    @aesir:

    Please discuss the content of tim's speeches. I will direct you to each speech (or part) if you have a question. Tim talks about the link between crime, poverty, unemployment etc. in part 1 of the second speech. I don't want to say much. Discuss the content of Tim Wise's speeches plesae.

    The majority of blacks in SA live in 3rd world conditions while the majority of whites in SA live in 1st world conditions. So do you want black people to be greatful of Jan van Riebeeck?
    Last edited by David Morrison; 22-11-2010 at 11:16 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    The majority of blacks in SA live in 3rd world conditions while the majority of whites in SA live in 1st world conditions. So do you want black people to be greatful of Jan van Riebeeck?
    Is that my problem? Or any other white persons problem? I heard a great thing the other day, a guy said he was sick of people standing at the robots asking him for money. Eventually he took a bunch of ANC business cards and handed them out to those people, epic. Also, would they have been any better off if the settlers had never been here?

    Well, saying that there are still tribes in Africa that are rewarded for evey person the murder of the opposing tribe, they get a scratch on their cheeks for each kill. Hey these days they do it with AK-47's so yeah probably my grandads fault.

    as per your other comments...

    Please watch at least 1 entire speech before commenting because there might be an answer to your repsonse in a speech
    I did.

    Judging by the youtube rating system (likes/dislikes), I am not alone in this regard
    Yes, +-700 likes for his first vid out of 5 million views does make his points valid, not even to mention it was shot almost 11 years ago.

    Ok I'm done, almost everything I can say I have already said in other posts/threads, everyone knows my views on this subject. Onona is not here anymore to point it out (:|) she got me. For a last thought, I don't think this guys speeches holds any water, while I do agree on one of his points the rest just seems like self hating crap. Like I said a few monts ago White guilt is so 1994.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    @aesir:

    First of all, please don't shut down lines of communication. I am not saying that it's your problem. He talked about the "inter-relationship between up and down"(speech 2 part 3). You suggested that black people must be greatful of van Riebeeck. I explained why they wouldn't be (they live in 3rd world conditions while the majority of whites live in 1st world conditions). If you disagree with Tim Wise's points, please point them out (tell me what speech and the min:seconds). He spoke about the link between whiet privilege and the legacy of colonialism and crime, poverty, water/electricity problems in the first part of the second speech(refer to the 1st post of this thread). I am not being confrontational but I am sensing animosity in your posts. Please discuss the CONTENT of Tim's speeches.
    Last edited by David Morrison; 23-11-2010 at 09:44 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Welcome to Nag David. The OT is usually the stimulant, few topics -ever- stick exclusively to the OT though.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    I don't understand how you can have trouble drawing paralells between the USA and South Africa. To me the simmilarities are as clear as daylight. White privilege most certainly applies to white South Africans. If the truth ****es you off, then there's something seriously wrong. Are you being irritated by people of colour complaining about the injustices of the past which have become the injustices of the present (because they have not been dealt with)? Are you suggesting that complaints about these serious issues are a nuisance to you? Here where I live, white privilege is never a hot topic. I never hear white people talking about white privilege. Tim Wise is the only white person I have heard, talk honestly and openly about these issues. I don't think that white people even think about these issues. I think that they just take all these privileges for granted. Tim Wise said it: "I didn't realise all that but now that I do...WHOA!.."
    Like I said, According to Tim the whole white privilege is always wiped under the carpet, nobody talks about it. While here in SA, I think it's the opposite, and no, I never stated that the truth ****es me off, I agree with Tim all the way. I'm not irritated by people of colour compaining about the injustices of the past, I most certainly welcome it. I just think the way they are trying to "correct" it isn't working...at all. In fact it's causing this country much more damage than anything else.

    In Term 2 of uni this year, We focussed on colonialism, and this was the start of various debates about the effects of colonialism and how we still see evidence of white privileges ect. So where I'm from, it has been a hot topic all year. Discussed by both the black and white individuals.

    When you talk about the injustices of the present that was caused by the injustices of the past, What exactly are you refering to? Are you refering to white privileged individuals who are still exploiting black people?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Thanks for the welcome brazed. I hope you ejoy my contribution to these forums.

    @Bawarned:

    WIth regard to white privilege and the legacy of colonialism, SA is deffinitely not the opposite to the USA, we are simmilar to the USA in this regard. We can only "correct" or some up with solutions to these issues once people start talking openly about it (white people and people of colour). The whole concept of white privilege is that "whiteness" or "eurocentricity" is the norm. BEE or AA are not changing these. BEE and AA focus on economics. "White Privilege is not just about the material advantages". It's about a mindset and mentality. (speech 2 part 3)

    When you say that White Privilege and the legacy of col. is a hot topic, you are talking about institutions where people are forced to talk about these things. I am talking about the public domain. Where people take it upon themselves and decide to talk about it not because some lecturer was talking about it and you must so you can "pass". In the public domain, I have never heard white people talk about these issues at all, let alone openly and honestly (speech 3, first 3 minutes). We need to unlock pathways that enable people to talk about these issues openly and honestly in the public domain.

    It is an injustice that most black people live in 3rd world conditions while most white people live in 1st world conditions. That is the reslult/legacy of colonialism. Tim talks about how the past continues to shape the present. (speech 3; minute 16-18)
    Last edited by David Morrison; 23-11-2010 at 10:53 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    .

    It is an injustice that most black people live in 3rd world conditions while most white people live in 1st world conditions. That is the reslult/legacy of colonialism. Tim talks about how the past continues to shape the present. (speech 3; minute 16-18)
    I think you mean the ineptitude of our government.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    @chvron:

    In 1994, the ANC government should have put in a place, a programme designed to redistribute the wealth. Where was the plan to redistribute the wealth? If the government did that, white people would have complained. The ANC inherited a country that has massive racial inequalities. The only way to offset those inequalities is to implement a wealth redistribution plan. Many white people like to focus on those that are down without focusing on those that are up. The only reason that those that are up, are up is because of the racial subordination of the past.

    How can you blame the ANC for these huge wealth disparites?

    (Speech 2; part 3)
    (Speech 1; minutes 15-25)

  14. #14

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    It might be an injustice, but to still call it a result of merely colonialism is silly. Especially in South Africa.
    South Africa is run by Black Africans who are pushing the poor into further economic hardship while making themselves rich. South Africa could be getting better but The ANC are ****ing everyone - except themselves - over.

    Oh, wait. It's Colonialism and Apartheid's fault! It's all very well laying blame and showcasing things like this, but without actually implementing any form of restructuring to those who are poor, you're not getting anywhere, and blaming White people is just scapegoating the fact governments and people are too lazy to do their jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    @chvron:
    In 1994, the ANC government should have put in a place, a programme designed to redistribute the wealth. Where was the plan to redistribute the wealth?
    I shouldn't suffer because of Mr Van Poohead's racial oppression, I can't help where I was born, who I am and what race I am. I should be given an equal chance like everyone else. If you want an equal society, treat everyone equally. If you want an equal society, focus on the majority becoming middle/working class (hell, just improve their life) than a minority becoming millionaires merely because they're Black/Coloured/Green. You can't go forward if you create a cyclical economic transformation...
    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    If the government did that, white people would have complained.
    And quite rightly so.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    How can you blame the ANC for these huge wealth disparites?
    Easily.


    It's also an injustice North Koreans have to live like they do in North Korea. How a lot of Mexicans and South Americans live. How some Whites live. Blacks aren't the only people affected by Colonialism, and either way, one shouldn't focus on ONE demographic but rather the population as a whole. Last time I checked Apartheid was racist and oppressive because it allowed a single demographic to prosper while neglecting others. Let's not make the same mistake...
    Last edited by Rah_Skill; 23-11-2010 at 11:27 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    @chvron:

    In 1994, the ANC government should have put in a place, a programme designed to redistribute the wealth. Where was the plan to redistribute the wealth? If the government did that, white people would have complained. The ANC inherited a country that has massive racial inequalities. The only way to offset those inequalities is to implement a wealth redistribution plan. Many white people like to focus on those that are down without focusing on those that are up. The only reason that those that are up, are up is because of the racial subordination of the past.

    How can you blame the ANC for these huge wealth disparites?

    (Speech 2; part 3)
    (Speech 1; minutes 15-25)
    By wasting money on useless name changes instead of building housing or focusing on job creation, not to mention the total failure of OBE. We are experiencing a brain drain thanks to BEE and AA. The people with the skills can't find work and get jobs overseas.

    Our electricity supply is in disarray thanks to poor government planning.

    The way this country will move forward is to help all the poor. Not just the black poor.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    It is not a co-incidence that the huge wealth disparites in our country run along racial lines. It is becaues the Apartheid goverment thought along racial lines that we have these huge wealth disparities. Now we have to think along racial lines to undo these injustices. Tim Wise spoke about the flaws of the "colour blind model".

    (Speech 1; minute 14-24)

    Please refer to Tim Wise's speeches.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    Now we have to think along racial lines to undo these injustices.
    Please refer to Tim Wise's speeches.
    If that's what he believes, then nevermind. I won't actually listen to his stuff, now. I did start, but that put me way off.
    People need to focus on people and their problems and not (further) create problems on race. Besides, race refers to other races apart from Black :P

    He's a reverse Uncle Tom.
    I'm done here.
    Last edited by Rah_Skill; 23-11-2010 at 11:37 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    It is not a co-incidence that the huge wealth disparites in our country run along racial lines. It is becaues the Apartheid goverment thought along racial lines that we have these huge wealth disparities. Now we have to think along racial lines to undo these injustices. Tim Wise spoke about the flaws of the "colour blind model".

    (Speech 1; minute 14-24)

    Please refer to Tim Wise's speeches.
    I'm at work now and as such could not watch the videos. He would be incorrect though. The only way to stop discrimination based on race is to stop discrimination based on race.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Can we actually discuss the topic or are we forced to keep our mouths shut if Tim Wise didn't mention a point we are thinking of?

    Oh, and please refer to Tim Wise's speeches when answering.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Tim Wise on White Privilege and the Legacy of Colonialism

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morrison View Post
    It is not a co-incidence that the huge wealth disparites in our country run along racial lines. It is becaues the Apartheid goverment thought along racial lines that we have these huge wealth disparities. Now we have to think along racial lines to undo these injustices. Tim Wise spoke about the flaws of the "colour blind model".

    (Speech 1; minute 14-24)

    Please refer to Tim Wise's speeches.
    Some people prefer to think for themselves.

    [EDIT] OSNAP.

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