The Astronomy thread

[echo]

I see a lot of **** about the universe and stuff and don't really want to crowd the Awesome Internet find Thread or the Photography thread with it. So here is a thread all about stars and stuff.

A storm wraps around Saturn

Last year, a giant storm erupted in Saturn?s northern hemisphere. It grew in size and length as Saturn?s mighty winds whipped it around the planet. The Cassini spacecraft took this gorgeous picture of it in late February, when the storm was three months old:

Saturn doesn?t do anything small, does it?

You can see the storm has actually wound entirely around the planet; just below the head on the left you can see light colored clouds that are actually from the tail of the storm that?s wrapped all the way around Saturn. Given Saturn?s diameter of about 120,000 km (72,000 miles) and the latitude of the storm (call it 45?), this monster system must be well over 300,000 km (180,000 miles) in length! That?s three-quarters of the way from the Earth to the Moon.

Yegads.

The storm is blasting out tons of radio noise, a sure sign that lightning must be dancing prodigiously beneath those clouds. The violence and raw power of this storm are amazing to ponder. Note that just the north/south extent of the storm is roughly the size of Earth.

And hmmmm. I guess we don?t name storms on other planets as we do on our home world. But if we did, may I suggest? Ouroboros?

Pretty nice video to make you feel small and insignificant.

[Drakus]

When I see some of these amazing vids and pics..... I wonder how is it possible for the human race, to still spend more on their own destruction than on the progress of deep sea and space exploration.

Edit: NASA's last space shuttle launch


Edit 2:
A quote from an employee at NASA(yes, I found it on Reddit).

The mood at NASA is mixed. Some are upset, some are hopeful for the future. Most are somewhere on the spectrum in between. NASA employes 17k - 18k civil servants, so opinions are all over the map.
One of the biggest challenges is articulating the future. With names for our new vehicles being the SLS and MPCV, it is tough to get people to connect.

But this is how I see where we are going and I am warming to the idea:
Retire the shuttle, which allows us to have the resources to do some of the groundbreaking tech development some accuse us of not doing (which, for the record, we are doing)

ISS through at least 2020. We have a continued US crew on the Station doing world class research that benefits us here on earth. Some of the vaccine research they are doing is amazing since viruses and bacteria are much more virulent in space, we can isolate the parts that make them so bad and eliminate them. Also, since we are now a National Lab, lots more opportunity for private companies and universities to take advantage of using our capabilities.

Create a new commercial market for low earth orbit: allows the U.S. to create a entire new economy and drive competitive tech development. It also gives us options on how best to get to low earth orbit and the ISS.

We shift shuttle resources to a new heavy lift rocket and a crew capsule to allow us to do what only the government can afford and accomplish: go explore space. Asteroid in 2020's, Mars in 2030's.

There are several new NASA advanced tech development programs that are getting started that will create massive improvements in our space operations. They want high-risk, high-return programs looking at propulsion improvements, advanced life support, resource recycling, radiation abatement, etc.

We keep a healthy science and aeronautics budget. Been on a plane lately? air traffic control software? NASA. Winglets that reduce turbulence and increase efficiency by up to 30%? NASA. Google NASA spinoffs, its crazy the amount of tech that we create.

Source

[Zoop]

I absolutely love outer space. Much of my idle time at home is spent perusing the photo archives on the NASA site. I might not know the technical details of what I'm looking at, but the sheer beauty of it all is enough for me. I'm actually pretty sad that I might not live to see man enter the era of space exploration.

[Mic]

I love the cosmos! Every time I have the chance I spend a few minutes staring at the stars, makes me wish I had a proper telescope. The wonders that lay out there, the beauty of solar nebula and the birth of new stars and worlds. On the subject of new worlds, which form of travel do you guys think humanity will use when we finally do venture outside of our solar system. My personal favourite is the concept of the generation ark, a slow moving ship [compared to light speed, still remarkably fast] that would take hundreds of years to travel to the nearest stars in a 20ly radius. The economics of such an endeavour alone would be unthinkable. But I do believe there may be some scenarios [not world threatening] that would make mankind want to built a generation ship.

Also, on the note of the space shuttle. You guys do know the Russians have been using the same capsule design for over 40 years? Don't know why everyone is going on about this being the end of human space travel, Soyuz will still be firing up for many decades to come. The Chinese have a space program with man capable spacecraft, The Indians and ESA are busy working on their own manned space vehicles. The only thing we are loosing is the most advanced space craft ever built [maybe Buran was more advanced, but who knows, it was a cloned shuttle and only launched once] but not our ability for space travel.

[Zoop]

Yes, but it's been almost half a decade since the first moonlanding and we're still nowhere close to commercial space flight or even manned missions to anything past Mars.

[Toxxyc]

Yes, but it's been almost half a decade since the first moonlanding and we're still nowhere close to commercial space flight or even manned missions to anything past Mars.

Because of this I'm one of the conspiracy lovers who claim the first moon landing was staged. Still to this day we manage to mess up a large amount of rocket launches, but they managed to not only go to but also return from the moon safely, with the same technological power we find in today's cellphones...? I just don't know.

/conspiracy theory

I'm also a huge fan of space, constellations and most of all the stories and mythologies bound to the specific constellations. I don't know much at all, but the one story I absolutely LOVE is the one about Orion and how he came to be in the stars. I've yet to read all the stories, but I think this linky is a MUST for everyone like me who likes to read the short stories bound to our stars. Some are quite extraordinary... :)

[Mic]

Yes, but it's been almost half a decade since the first moonlanding and we're still nowhere close to commercial space flight or even manned missions to anything past Mars.

Because of this I'm one of the conspiracy lovers who claim the first moon landing was staged. Still to this day we manage to mess up a large amount of rocket launches, but they managed to not only go to but also return from the moon safely, with the same technological power we find in today's cellphones...? I just don't know.

/conspiracy theory

Zoop, I think you mean century not decade ;)

And at Toxxyc, I'm going to use the same counter argument I always use. If it was staged, then why didn't the Soviets call America out on it. If it was staged why need to go there 6 times and also, back then during the peak of the space race they'd do anything to go to the moon, mars just doesn't have that much urgency the moon had [unless they find oil on mars xD ].

[Drakus]

Myth Busters did a show dedicated to that. The team that landed on the moon left a reflective disc approx 30cm in diameter. It is still there and can still be picked up by laser equipment. Just thought you guys should know

[The Dash]

Myth Busters did a show dedicated to that. The team that landed on the moon left a reflective disc approx 30cm in diameter. It is still there and can still be picked up by laser equipment. Just thought you guys should know

I was actually thinking of posting this, but it could have just as easily been put there by a rover

[Drone]

Space, the final frontier. I love space and the theories of space travel. But I doubt it would anytime soon.

The biggest hurdle we have to overcome is all the radiation in space. The only thing that protects us is our special core that creates a magnetic field around the planet blocking all the radiation.

As for traveling fast in space, it will be quite tricky. To reach high speeds like that will take months even years as we will die if it is sudden, sort of like falling from a high spot, it is not the falling that kills you but the sudden stop.

And last but the biggest hurdle is power. Maybe dark matter will solve this but it will still be a long time before we can harnes it.

In the end we are exploring all these hurdles and getting closer everyday to achieving space travel. Will be awesome to see it in our lifetime.

But I also think that we should focus more on deap see exploration as we don't even know much about it. And for all we know that will be the key to space travel.

Love space theories. :P

[Repline]

Hey Guys.

Less discussion and more pictures please. Im drooling over here! :D

[Grimnebulin]

This should provide a fairly extensive astronomical fix for those space junkies amongst us.

As an example, the Carina Nebula...

[Garson007]

As for traveling fast in space, it will be quite tricky. To reach high speeds like that will take months even years as we will die if it is sudden, sort of like falling from a high spot, it is not the falling that kills you but the sudden stop.

Completely irrelevant for a number of potentially millions of years. Our solar system is big, it's HUGE. You cannot comprehend its size. There is absolutely no reason to try and leave it, beyond scientific endeavors. Whereas the solar system being populated is of far bigger interest for millenia to come as it would increase out carrying capacity and individuality exponentially.

[Drone]

^I agree fully. Was just pointing out how difficult space travel is. I don't know all the details as I'm not a rocket scientist or even remotely close to it. But I understand the basis of the concepts and find it very interisting.

The only way we are going futher than our solar system is with technology from sci-fi films. :)

And even populating other planets in our solar system will be very tricky...

[Garson007]

And even populating other planets in our solar system will be very tricky...

I don't think that needs to even be an objective. The only reason planets make good habitats is because of the gravity well. But the gravity well in of itself is by far the biggest negative in space travel, because of the energy needed to escape it. Not to mention the amount of resources that are locked in as a requirement for exactly that purpose of being a gravity well.

No, our future is not on planets, but on specially designed space habitats. If gravity is still needed, we'd find a way to at least simulate it. If radiation is a big problem, we'll find a way to overcome it. None of the negatives can possibly cost more energy(/matter) than what is required for a gravity well.

Not to mention that if transhumanist ideals are achieved, then there would be no need for a gravity well or radiation reduction. We have evolved to be able to live on this planet and natural selection is not a viable option to see who can survive in space. Rather than build metallic boxes to keep us safe, it'll be a lot more effective to force our evolution so we don't need them.

[pArkEr]

I recently saw a Michio Kaku show the other day on Discovery Science of how space travel is possible. Basically, it boiled down to harnessing the power of antimatter, creating powerful force-fields to protect the space ships (which would require room temperature super-conductors, quite a long way off I think), having the ship spin to create artificial gravity, and creating extremely protective spacesuits, if we ever have to venture out into space. Couple of other things which I cannot remember as well.

[Grimnebulin]

Not to mention that if transhumanist ideals are achieved, then there would be no need for a gravity well or radiation reduction. We have evolved to be able to live on this planet and natural selection is not a viable option to see who can survive in space. Rather than build metallic boxes to keep us safe, it'll be a lot more effective to force our evolution so we don't need them.

Do you think a technological singularity would force transhumanism, or prevent it?

[Garson007]

artificial gravity

Quick physics nitpick: You're describing simulated gravity, not artificial gravity. Artificial gravity would signify actually gravity, created artificially, which this is not.

Do you think a technological singularity would force transhumanism, or prevent it?

If by technological singularity you mean self-enhancing AIs, I don't believe that's in even the same time frame as transhumanism. We're already close to creating artificial limbs and the like and we're afaik not even close to a mouse level AI. In all honesty, if I had to pick, I'd pick the former; self-enhancing AIs of such a level would without a doubt be directly incorporated into humans from the get go.

[pArkEr]

Ah, noted, thanks.

[Grimnebulin]

If by technological singularity you mean self-enhancing AIs, I don't believe that's in even the same time frame as transhumanism. We're already close to creating artificial limbs and the like and we're afaik not even close to a mouse level AI. In all honesty, if I had to pick, I'd pick the former; self-enhancing AIs of such a level would without a doubt be directly incorporated into humans from the get go.

Ah, but you see we ARE far closer to recursive self improvement than you think. Machines are just playing dumb so as to impart a false sense of security.... ;)