Germany uninterested in changing barbaric sex-offender law

[Kharrak]

...instead of spending the rest of his life in a prison using up resources and contributing nothing?

I've generally been somewhat attracted to the idea of removing "offenders" from society, placing them into outer societies where they work for the sake of the larger society. Construction, mining, maintenance... all of that. No punishment, just removal from our society, into their own closed society, moved into anomity from the perception of the main society.

[echo]

That is a pretty good idea, or just give them guns/cars and have a tournament for the entertainment of the rest of us. But then Zoop would moan and call us barbaric :P

But seriously, if they don't intend to ever get released, why look after them?

[Garson007]

But seriously, if they don't intend to ever get released, why look after them?

They're human beings? They're also citizens.

[Kharrak]

But seriously, if they don't intend to ever get released, why look after them?

Well, that's why I pointed to assigning them to labour - so that they fulfil a use.

[Squirly]

I'm very much of the "make them work instead of sit around using up tax payer money" mindset. I know that the states have a system like that, but that's for non-psychos only as I understand. Murderers and rapists don't fall into that bracket (I don't think so anyway). Mind you, the US has most of their population behind bars so it would make sense for them to come up with something productive for them to do.

[echo]

They're human beings? They're also citizens.

In my books, you lose that status when you intentionally hurt or kill another human being.

[Kharrak]

In my books, you lose that status when you intentionally hurt or kill another human being.

Does disciplining a mischievous child fall into that category?

Edit: and by extension, how does damage inflicted through self defence factor in?

[5h@un13]

Does disciplining a mischievous child fall into that category?

Edit: and by extension, how does damage inflicted through self defence factor in?

I dont see the connection here. What does disciplining a child have to do with raping or killing another human being?

[Kharrak]

I dont see the connection here. What does disciplining a child have to do with raping or killing another human being?

I was referring to his use of "intentionally hurt", which I then linked to acts of discipline.

[Zoop]

Also, lots of people consider physical methods of disciplining a child as cruel. Where do we draw the line?

[Garson007]

In my books, you lose that status when you intentionally hurt or kill another human being.

You can't stop being a human being. Luckily most sane constitutions would never allow some arbitrary person/body revoking your citizenship. So no. Neither of the two statuses are lost.

[5h@un13]

I was referring to his use of "intentionally hurt", which I then linked to acts of discipline.

Yer, ok. But I dont think anyone is going to make a kid do back breaking, meaningless labour for punching the kid next door in face. Maybe just make him wash his dads car.

or did I miss something in the thread?

[Kharrak]

Yer, ok. But I dont think anyone is going to make a kid do back breaking, meaningless labour for punching the kid next door in face. Maybe just make him wash his dads car.

or did I miss something in the thread?

I was referring to physical discipline. Hidings! Same things go for discipline in the military. Creating situations of extreme discomfort to enforce a powerfully ingrained resistance for a repeat act.

[echo]

You can't stop being a human being. Luckily most sane constitutions would never allow some arbitrary person/body revoking your citizenship. So no. Neither of the two statuses are lost.

Just my opinion, but I was referring to the citizenship. When you take another persons dignity or life you should revoke your citizenship and have no further part in that countries doings. Neither should you reap from their taxes.

I'm just being a hardass here but do you see a better solution?

[Kharrak]

Just my opinion, but I was referring to the citizenship. When you take another persons dignity or life you should revoke your citizenship and have no further part in that countries doings. Neither should you reap from their taxes.

I'm just being a hardass here but do you see a better solution?

Unfortunately, that's somewhat paradoxical - what about those who pass the sentence? They are by extension robbing dignity and, in several circumstances, the lives of whom they judge.

[echo]

Ok, but this is all hypothetical in that there is never a perfect system. If there was and the criminal is guilty (as proven by extensive evidence) and there is no doubt about his guiltiness (what is the right word?) then I don't see how the burden or responsibility of sentencing someone like that can be attributed to someone. The law sentences you. And that law is just.

[Kharrak]

And that law is just.

That, is a tremendously interesting and arguable point.

But, that aside, I re-iterate my perception of simply moving the convicted, if found guilty, from the society to be placed in an "under" society that functions to support the main society. An army of workers who must work to earn their bread, an community largely anonymous to the overall society.

Of course, this then leads us to the ballgame that is law - getting people into there in the first place. How can one who is guilty be charged with certainly, and those who are innocent are let go. I've mixed with ideas of mechanisms that browse through the minds of the accused to see for themselves, but this would naturally create massive outcry.

[echo]

That law that I'm referring to would be the ideal one. I'm not sure if we have that yet, but it's something to strive for.

The rest of your post I totally agree with. Like mole people. But I don't think I have a problem with the mind browser idea though. If you are innocent would you have something to lose?

[Kharrak]

If you are innocent would you have something to lose?

It's more that the "mind raker" would see everything, which could then be, as many would undoubtedly argue, be used as blackmail in other occasions. One would have to design and rely on the mechanism to keep all information private, or discard it after filtering through everything. You would have to keep the information out of the hands of any human that may even remotely have motive to gain access to such information. When you're scanning the minds of political and military leaders, it becomes an issue. And of course, as soon as you hide the information, the perceived reliability starts sinking.

[echo]

Yeah it would have to be closely watched and monitored. But you can narrow the search down by searching for certain things and keywords pertaining to the case. Like Googling a mind.