The correct method of providing support?

[Jeronkey]

Perhaps a few of the more computer savvy folk around here could give me the answer for this one. I'm not qualified in anyway as a computer technician although I'm hoping to gain some sort of certification in the future. I've mainly dealt with computers long enough to figure out some sort of solution to the more common problems, and I know enough about hardware to get by.

I find myself receiving requests from more and more people to fix their computers, and I just have to ask.. what is the CORRECT method to provide support when it comes to Windows? More often than not I have a person come to me with a dead desktop or laptop, a valid license sticker, and no windows cd whatsoever. As far as I know to simply use my disc I have available would be illegal, although as far as my personal opinion goes, should be fine as long as the product key that have on the side of their computer is a valid one.

I know I myself had issues when I needed to reformat own computer. It came with Windows, has a sticker, yet neither Mecer nor Microsoft could supply me with a disc.

If I take it to the computer shop they'll charge me and do the job, but how do they do it? Is there some sort of piece of paper that allows you to use the same disc to fix various computers, or is it something you just do? Then, there is the question of what if I don't have the disc in the first place? I might run XP home, what if I get someone running Professional?

I hope I don't sound like too much of an idiot here. I just want to end up doing everything the right way.

[Wesley]

So long as there's an original license sticker, you can use any disc you can find that's not scratched to do the re-install. You have to match the disk to the license key on the sticker; e.g. Windows XP Home must use a XP Home disc, same for Vista and 7. Starting from Vista, you can use the same key for both 32 and 64-bit installs.

If there isn't an original license, there are ways to check whether the license is valid or not. One of them is by using the Windows Genuine Advantage tool for XP and Vista - that's found by allowing the system to update through the internet. The tool runs once the system is restarted and checks whether the key is valid or not.

For Windows 7, you use an update Microsoft published in 2009, KB971033. It checks the key and while it won't lock your out of your system, it does remind you that your key is invalid. Users will still receive updates and will still be able to install other software. Once the correct license key is bought, its a simple task to update the key and return the machine to a legal license.

If you have a Windows disc that was printed by an OEM like HP or Fujitsu, you'll be allowed to install the OS and then change from the OEM key to a valid license, perhaps the one you've found on the sticker. For XP the process to change the key is different from Vista and 7, which do it through the Properties window of Computer.

For XP, Click Start > Run > type "oobe\msoobe.exe /a" > Select the option to "Activate by phoning a Microsoft Rep" > Select the option to change your product key on the bottom right. Once done, the program will ask you to update the key through the internet by clicking "Update." If the key comes from a computer that was previously activated through the internet, you'll have to do a manual activation by phoning the Microsoft Activation service on 0801 43 43 43. When prompted for how many activations that's been done on the key, select one. You can either write the number down if you'd like, or if you're on a cell the service gives you the activation code by SMS to enter into the activation window.

Just remember, even if the software is considered abandonware like Office 2000, there's still an activation process and the license key will apply. Like Office Home and Student, you only get three keys to play with, and you must stay within that limit. If you've installed two operating systems with one key and its not a Volume license, the first one that gets onto the internet is the one that the license applies to, the other is considered illegal. One OS license per machine, that's always the rule.

With Office its a bit different. Home and Student have one license to share, Home and Business has two licenses and so does Office Professional. Those only apply to the retail packs though - product key cards are exempt from those benefits. The only caveats is that for Home and Business and Pro, the username must be the same across both computers, otherwise Microsoft will pick that up and the second key activation will fail.

[Jeronkey]

Thanks a ton for the reply, Wesley. It helps a stack to know that.

If I may ask further though, how can I go about obtaining discs of my own? I would love to be prepared for any sort of situation - such as whether the client has Home, Professional or some other variant. Would my best bet be to try and track down the original CDs and buy each? .. or would it be fine to create my own from an ISO or a copy of a friends? I know my current XP Home CD is a cd I created myself from the i386 folder I found on our laptop. I didn't consider that the most illegal thing I could do.

Thanks again for your help.

EDIT: Oh shucks. I realized that made me sound like a bit of cheap skate.. which I properly am. I'm just curious as to what is actually going to be considered piracy or frowned upon. Ultimately, it'll be a good investment for me to buy the discs if that is the only option as if things keep up as they are I'll most likely make the money back without too much difficulty from the money I charge to do the repairs.

[Wesley]

You can't download ISOs, that's for sure, tons of them are filled with trojans and backdoor viruses. Your best bet is to make copies of discs from friends. I have one for Windows XP Pro, I have an ISO that I copied years ago that has all the editions of Windows 7 on one image (supposed to be from Lenovo support, but I'm not going to tell them where I got it from) and I also have ISOs on my hard drive of the Office 2007 pre-install package and I've copied over the contents of the DVDs that had Office 2010 on them.

Being a techie you just collect them and I always have something for those people that I help. If all else fails, I turn them over to Linux Mint or Ubuntu as a last resort while they save up for a new license. Make friends with the techies at your local PC shop and ask them what discs they use. If they know their ****, they'll copy them for you since there's no harm to doing that.

[CrashHelmut]

To add to what Wesley said; When it comes to laptops, things get a bit more tricky.

Especially Windows XP, that one can be a real bastard: On some laptops the license key is linked to a vendor specific disc. This means that the key will not work even if you are installing from the correct retail install DVD for that specific OS. There may be a way around this, but in my particular case I had to resort to re-installing from the recovery discs (with all its accompanying bloatware, blegh).

However, my Windows 7 experience was a bit smoother, but not necessarily straight forward. The key from the laptop allowed installation well enough, but I couldn't activate. That particular key is kind of like a "vendor batch" key. However, getting the correct OS key was not too difficult although a somewhat lengthy process. A window will pop up asking you if you'd like to receive the authentication code via telephone. Click yes and it will show you a (toll free?) number to phone, obviously your region information needs to be correct so as to receive the RSA number. It will generate a long code that you will need to enter over the phone (the whole process is automated) and then it will read you a number back that you need to type into the authentication window. But once that's done everything should be authenticated and genuine.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've downloaded Windows 7 ISOs from Microsoft's website. (But it may be from their licensing division.)

[Wesley]

To add to what Wesley said; When it comes to laptops, things get a bit more tricky.

Especially Windows XP, that one can be a real bastard: On some laptops the license key is linked to a vendor specific disc. This means that the key will not work even if you are installing from the correct retail install DVD for that specific OS. There may be a way around this, but in my particular case I had to resort to re-installing from the recovery discs (with all its accompanying bloatware, blegh).

Depends on the vendor though. Fujitsu, Dell and HP discs have no issues on other machines.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've downloaded Windows 7 ISOs from Microsoft's website. (But it may be from their licensing division.)

Correct, you may only download ISOs from their site if you're a licensing partner, registered Partner Network member or Gold Certified partner. I may still be able to get into my boss' old account to get ISOs though, haven't tried that in a while.

Edit: I can still get in, but only new software is available.

[Jeronkey]

Kudos to both of you! The information really helps.

Fujitsu, Dell and HP discs have no issues on other machines.

Useful to note. My sister has a HP XP Professional disc that came with her laptop so I might look into that for my XP Pro disc. I also stumbled upon this link. Supposedly you can create an All-Edition Windows 7 disc from it. Any thoughts from your side on it? Safe to do?

... if you're a licensing partner, registered Partner Network member or Gold Certified partner.

I'm really sorry for my lack of knowledge here: what exactly are those? Are they things I should look into becoming, would they help in the IT line, or is it really not something I need to worry about?

..with all its accompanying bloatware, blegh

Heh. I noticed on my friend's Toshiba laptop that it must have about a dozen different strange utilities placed there by Toshiba ranging from some sort of bulletin board to an eco-utility. They might be useful software but I can't help but like my install to come in a sort of blank slate where I can choose what needs to be installed or not.

If all else fails, I turn them over to Linux Mint or Ubuntu as a last resort while they save up for a new license.

I'm at least a little familiar with this. I've got both Ubuntu and Xubuntu in case of anything like this. I'll definitely prefer to use it as a last resort as you say because I'm unsure how most people would cope with Linux. It isn't as user friendly in some respects as Windows. But something is better than nothing!

[Wesley]

. I also stumbled upon this link. Supposedly you can create a disc to allow those All-Edition Windows 7 discs from it. Any thoughts from your side on it? Safe to do?

Those are the correct versions, so its safe to download those ISOs to use for re-installing a system. Trust me, its far easier having one disk than five to choose from. Starter is also included in those versions, handy for when you're re-installing the OS for a netbook.

I'm really sorry for my lack of knowledge here: what exactly are those? Are they things I should look into becoming, would they help in the IT line, or is it really not something I need to worry about?

They're membership licenses applicable to businesses that resell Microsoft software. You can join the Microsoft Developer Network for about R6000 to get developer-level support, access to the MSDN forums and the ability to download any version of Windows you need but its not an option for everyone.

You also get near-unlimited license keys with your versions of Windows - you get Professional and Ultimate to play with. Its not meant for people who intend to pirate it, but rather for developers who have to update twenty or thirty machines every week or so for testing purposes. Developers who have the sub usually use the keys for their household computers as well, but its limited to no more than that (Microsoft would prefer if you didn't use the license for that purpose). For the most part, its just easier to buy separate licenses for each computer.

As for bloated installs, get an ISO for each version of Windows 7 Home Basic, Home Premium and Professional (if you're going to support family and friends with business-use computers) and follow this guide to create a slipstreamed copy that installs with very little hassle and takes up less space than the default Windows install. There's a lot of junk in the default Windows 7 install that can be tossed out thanks to Microsoft's blanket approach to supporting everything under the sun.

If you're advising family members on what version of Windows to get, its Home Premium all the way. Basic is sometimes too basic, Professional is awesome but expensive. Ultimate is a waste of money unless you're getting a bargain price.

Also read this, its food for thought: Sean's Windows 7 Optimisation Guide. There are download links for Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate in that thread as well.

[willbeonekenobi]

I also stumbled upon this link. Supposedly you can create an All-Edition Windows 7 disc from it. Any thoughts from your side on it? Safe to do?

Those are the correct versions, so its safe to download those ISOs to use for re-installing a system. Trust me, its far easier having one disk than five to choose from. Starter is also included in those versions, handy for when you're re-installing the OS for a netbook.

This might be a bit off topic but does anyone here know where I can get just a product key to install with one of the iso files mentioned in the link by Jeronkey as the hard drive in my dad's laptop decided to go to the big hardware store in the sky and the product key on his C.O.A (Certificate of Authenticity) is not readable. I have downloaded the required iso file but I can't seem to find a website that will sell me just the key and for it to be a legit key (most of the sites I have found I thought they would be giving me a 'authentic key' then some months later a little message stating that 'your copy of windows is not genuine' message and therefor my dad had wasted money and not be able to get a refund) without them also telling me to download the iso file (like the microsoft store does). And since I custom build my pc's and run Linux on them I don't have a extra license to pass onto him.

[Wesley]

You can buy product key cards from online stores and walk-in computer shops, which are credit card-shaped plastic license plates with the Microsoft key stuck on them. You can buy them on their own and it chops off about R150 of your price that you would have paid for the retail pack. You can also buy the license direct from Microsoft off their site and they'll mail it to you.

The only issue with PKC's is that on Office the licensing scheme is different. PKC versions of Office Home and Student can only use the license on one computer, whereas the retail edition allows up to three installs. Home and Business and Professional allow the use of the license on two computers with retail keys so long as its the same username on both computers, but the PKCs only allow one install. So bear that in mind.

Also, always scan your keys and make a copy of them and keep that in a safe place, even put a text file of all your keys online in Google docs or Skydrive. You never know when the label tears off or fades and you're stuck trying to reinstall it.

[willbeonekenobi]

You can buy product key cards from online stores and walk-in computer shops, which are credit card-shaped plastic license plates with the Microsoft key stuck on them. You can buy them on their own and it chops off about R150 of your price that you would have paid for the retail pack. You can also buy the license direct from Microsoft off their site and they'll mail it to you.

I can't seem to find a PKC for windows 7, even from the microsoft store. Well then I'd guess I need to go and buy a retail copy just to have another copy of the dvd.

[Jeronkey]

I discovered the little joy known as nLite today. I had heard mention of "slipstreaming" and such but I've always considered that the process would be a little over my head and also never quite felt the need. I started fiddling with it though and as a result I'm now sitting with my XP Home and Pro discs updated to install SP3 by default and also with South African regional settings. Lovely!

A lovely little feature is that it crafted the Pro CD from my sister's HP Recovery disc. By default the disc installed without asking you for a CD key, but nLite managed to remove that quite easily. Any one else tried this?

Linky!

I can't seem to find a PKC for windows 7, even from the microsoft store. Well then I'd guess I need to go and buy a retail copy just to have another copy of the dvd.

Perhaps Wesley or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong regarding this , but shouldn't you be able to get a new product key via the Microsoft Online Shop? I see they have an option for buying and downloading the software. I would imagine they would provide you with a CD key? Otherwise perhaps you'll be better of with getting the retail copy. Just thought I'll mention it though. -> link

[Wesley]

They will e-mail the key if that's more convenient, but mostly they'll give you the key via mail and still send you the regular pack with the sticker and discs if you chose that option. You'll have to check with them first by chatting up the online representatives, but its going to be easier just buying the retail pack in most cases.

Do not buy the retail pack from Incredible Connection or Game/Makro. They'll overcharge you.

[Jeronkey]

I hope I'm not resurrecting something a little too old here, but I had some further questions and figured they might as well go in this thread than a new one.

I'm slowly getting myself sorted out with a decent repair setup and managed to get a few more machines up and running. It is a really lovely and satisfying feeling to send a machine back to a customer all bright, sparkly and running decently again. The money that comes afterwards is also quite nice. :P

I'm mainly curious what sort of tools and software people here are using for cases such as virus disinfection and such. I'm slowly discovering that most of my old favourites when fixing my own computer have little bits in their EULAs that prohibit commercial use, and as I'm charging for the computers I repair I think it is only fair to stick to their rules. So far, ESET's online scanner is the only decent tool in my box. Are there free solutions available, or do I need to purchase a setup of sorts?

Which, is a odd question. Will this be a case of, "Sir, your computer is infected and you'll need a nice antivirus, I recommend this and it'll cost x" and purchase it for them, or is there some sort of product I can purchase myself that'll allow me to temporarily load it on to machines and then remove it when I ship it off?

Thanks again. :)

(GMER, Autoruns and other little goodies are proving useful too!)