A lesson to those that wish to enter the IT work market.

[Legion]

As a male having only my MCSE i can tell you the job market is saturated.
1. They are mostly searching for female's.
2. The requirements for males are much higher for some reason.

I recently had to move there by changing my job on top of that.
I'm now working doing data collection it pays R11000 per month.
It manages to feed me and keeps my hands busy.



But there is no room for expanding.
I have no idea how to get myself a better position.. what should i study.. what should i be looking for?
I have loads of talent but very little to prove for it.

Anyone care to enlighten the situation?

[Sir PaniCore]

I also have an MCSE (did it quickly as part of my gap year, just to stop myself from getting bored) And I'm currently doing computer engineering at Tuks and have had offers to go apprentice in weapons development as they are desperate for computer engineers. The market is only saturated on the lower end of the IT Field ( This includes MCSE) however there is a huge need for systems design and development. IT is an extremely varied field, but the bits that dob't require specialisations are extremely flooded.

[sywlyn]

I also have an MCSE (did it quickly as part of my gap year, just to stop myself from getting bored) And I'm currently doing computer engineering at Tuks and have had offers to go apprentice in weapons development as they are desperate for computer engineers. The market is only saturated on the lower end of the IT Field ( This includes MCSE) however there is a huge need for systems design and development. IT is an extremely varied field, but the bits that dob't require specialisations are extremely flooded.

Juniors

This is true, however, we have definitely noticed that the quality of people walking into the IT market has also dropped considerably. Lately we go through at least 20 interviews before finding someone with the right make-up. Once employed, we have also noticed that new candidates are less "eager" and struggles on the resourceful side "googling to resolve challenges is something that they definitely struggle with more, which makes no sense considering the generation". The challenge in the market is so bad that even when we don't require people, we interview and employee when we find the right makeup just because its so rare "and carry the employment cost until a gap opens up". Funny enough, the interview process on juniors are about 30% skill, 35% talent, 35% energy.

Growth

From a growth perspective, its a hard one to answer. Firstly the environment and the culture should support it, but more importantly the person. Most of the people i have seen excel did so not because they where given a skills roadmap, but because they pushed themselves. Some people have the ability to notice gaps in skill, fill them, then notice gaps in leadership, mentorship around them, fill it, and eventually grow due to this. However, for the first year or more, i would really just focus on getting my skill "in the function i perform" as developed as i possibly can.

Senior

Again, depends on the field, but there is definitely a shortage of skill in a bunch of different fields. The term Senior itself is also the challenge. You find alot of "senior" people in the market who struggle finding jobs just because they are, infact, not senior. I have interviewed TOGAF certified architects who couldn't tell me a) what TOGAF is and b) why you need an architecture vision and scope. I have seen countless senior consultants not capable of spending 5 minutes on a open ended question like "what do you do, and how do you do it".

General


I think IT is an excellent field to be in. There is a lot of potential, and the more you grow, the more options to diversify you get "which leads to more value association to yourself". If i can give you a single tip, don't follow the well walked path. I dont believe junior, intermediate then senior developer should EVER be someones career ambitions in IT, once you hit intermediate find a specialisation in a sector "mining and manufacturing, insure", ERP, CRM, ECM, etc... Also, stating your great holds no weight, being able to say that you always deliver on time, within budget, to specification will get you far.

[hAwk2323]

I also have an MCSE (did it quickly as part of my gap year, just to stop myself from getting bored) And I'm currently doing computer engineering at Tuks and have had offers to go apprentice in weapons development as they are desperate for computer engineers. The market is only saturated on the lower end of the IT Field ( This includes MCSE) however there is a huge need for systems design and development. IT is an extremely varied field, but the bits that dob't require specialisations are extremely flooded.

Who offered you the apprenticeship? Im studying computer engineering with you. Do you think I'll also be able to get an apprenticeship there?

[Toxxyc]

OK, this is stressing me a little. I've applied for BSc Computer Science at Tuks, and if I'm accepted I'll be very tempted to go study it. But this news bothers me. I've already almost set my mind to further studies (at least an Honours degree after the Bachelor's), as this is a technical course and with an Honours you can be employed at universities giving classes on the subject (well, as far as I've heard, mind you). Now I know a BSc degree in Computer Sciences isn't the same as a basic IT course (not interested, way too many people etc. etc.), but will this negatively impact me as well? If so, I may very well rethink my position at current and start to think in a different direction...

[pArkEr]

Seriously Toxxyc? Computer science is probably the best degree you can get. Just research job prospects and career opportunities for comp sci majors, it's staggering! So relax, you'll have no problem getting a job if you know your **** well enough.

[Toxxyc]

*phew*

Thanks, I'm a little stressed at the moment. It's been a while since I applied and I've not yet heard from UP. I queried today though, hope to get a damn answer soon...

[Wesley]

If anyone is thinking of studying computers, its a great field to get into - from one starting position with a MCSE you have a whole world open to you, from qualifying as a network engineer to a network admin, database administrator, programmer, software designer, web development and website design, just to name a few career courses open to me. ****, just doing your MCSEs alone is a great start and it might set you up for an entry into programming for mobile phones because that's where all the fun and money is now.

Legion! There are just about zero good Linux administrators looking for jobs in this country. A Linux admin that can administer Windows servers and desktops in a mixed environment is worth his/her weight in gold to large companies, especially banks. With the SKA array popping up in the Karoo pretty sooon, there'll be plenty of job opportunities for network engineers, administrators and even civil engineers. All (or mostly) with Linux.

In college I lead a group of my friends through a project to overhaul an imaginary network that was drowning in funds and needed scalability and light resource requirements. We had a budget of R5 million and using a large part of Linux in the project showed that the budget could be cut by as much as R2 million. I later heard that my project ended up being the basis of a roll-out for the college. Its a prized skill, being able to use open-source software to cut down budgetary requirements.

Also, Computer Sciences is a pretty good degree to start off with. Hell, if you find it fun you could go into cryptography and deeper into security for operating systems because I remember reading through a section on that in my friend's textbooks two years ago. Don't worry Toxxyc, you're pretty much set ^_^

Also, you guys get paid more than me.

[Jeronkey]

This is most likely unhelpful to you as you most likely don't plan on moving any time soon, but I've had good friends of mine move over to Australia recently, and from the reports I'm hearing from them, people with good computer skills are quite in demand at the moment. I'm not advocating that you have to leave South Africa for work, though, I just thought it might be nice to keep in mind.

Have you tried sending in your CV to a few of the better recruitment agencies? My sister used to do recruitment, and having someone keeping a few extra eyes out for you for slots in the job market might be useful while you work.

I sincerely hope I'm not hijacking the topic by asking this, but..

If anyone is thinking of studying computers, its a great field to get into - from one starting position with a MCSE you have a whole world open to you, from qualifying as a network engineer to a network admin, database administrator, programmer, software designer, web development and website design, just to name a few career courses open to me. ****, just doing your MCSEs alone is a great start and it might set you up for an entry into programming for mobile phones because that's where all the fun and money is now.

I am looking to study computers. I'm pretty must just finished high school, and done absolutely zero studies on the subject before, but as I've fiddled with them for so long and even starting repairing them for a bit of cash, I would like to get some professional qualification or certification done. Can anyone recommend where on earth I should even start? I know of a few qualifications, such as A+ and MCSE, but I'm utterly unsure which would be the actual starting point.

(EDIT: A confusing note: Am I correct that Microsoft discontinued the Microsoft Certified System's Engineer, and MCSE now refers to Microsoft Certified Solutions Expert? What would be the equivalent of the old MCSE today, then? Or can we in SA still study that anyway?)

I also don't want to delve into something too deep for my head. I may be able to use and repair them, but as I say I've never studied them, so I have no idea how complex the courses will be.

*goes to look up possible courses*

[Wesley]

The new MSCE exams are the same type, but Microsoft has made them more difficult to pass unless you know your ****. I'd say you need to start off with a diploma or degree in computers (around three years) in which you do your A+, N+, Linux+ and basic programming courses. After that, do your MCSEs and try to do them while you're in an apprenticeship with a company that you'll be working with for a while. Otherwise, pay for them out your own pocket, its not that much considering the quality of the certifications you're getting. I can also recommend looking at getting a certification from Cisco or D-Link if you're planning to specialise in network engineering.

As for course complexity, its really not that hard, you just have to pay attention to what you're doing and apply some logic and analytical skills to any problems you come across. It helps if you're into technology as well, as a lack of enthusiasm for being a technician is pretty much going to kill everything because your heart's not in it.

[Gammaray]

Microsoft did stop the whole MCSE thing and changed it to MCITP & MCPD, but I did see they're doing MSCE again for MS Server 2012 & SQL and the cloud. But like Wesley said, try to do a B.Sc or B.Tech first.

The first three years dabs into many parts of ICT, whether it would be networking, programming, multimedia, web design or system analysis. After that you should have a good idea of what you really want to do. Plus after those three years, you will have a diploma and then the A+ & N+ will be a breeze if you'd like to add something like that.

In your forth year, you actually learn exactly the same stuff you would in international qualifications, but you just don't write their exams. So you can write them afterwards if you feel up to it and have the spare cash. I went the networking route and our courses was actually CCNA, CCDA, the 4 core MCSE modules, some Linux, and ITIL as our core subjects. So I reckon the analyst pussys and development guys went through the same thing.

Bottom line, the ICT market is huge and many people think IT guys are a dime a dozen, like a jack of all traits, and it's really not.
Specialise, specialise, specialise!

[Legion]

If anyone is thinking of studying computers, its a great field to get into - from one starting position with a MCSE you have a whole world open to you, from qualifying as a network engineer to a network admin, database administrator, programmer, software designer, web development and website design, just to name a few career courses open to me. ****, just doing your MCSEs alone is a great start and it might set you up for an entry into programming for mobile phones because that's where all the fun and money is now.

Legion! There are just about zero good Linux administrators looking for jobs in this country. A Linux admin that can administer Windows servers and desktops in a mixed environment is worth his/her weight in gold to large companies, especially banks. With the SKA array popping up in the Karoo pretty sooon, there'll be plenty of job opportunities for network engineers, administrators and even civil engineers. All (or mostly) with Linux.

In college I lead a group of my friends through a project to overhaul an imaginary network that was drowning in funds and needed scalability and light resource requirements. We had a budget of R5 million and using a large part of Linux in the project showed that the budget could be cut by as much as R2 million. I later heard that my project ended up being the basis of a roll-out for the college. Its a prized skill, being able to use open-source software to cut down budgetary requirements.

Also, Computer Sciences is a pretty good degree to start off with. Hell, if you find it fun you could go into cryptography and deeper into security for operating systems because I remember reading through a section on that in my friend's textbooks two years ago. Don't worry Toxxyc, you're pretty much set ^_^

Also, you guys get paid more than me.

Ahh. yes.
I was looking into that.
It seems a unbothered - untapped market.

[Sir PaniCore]

Who offered you the apprenticeship? Im studying computer engineering with you. Do you think I'll also be able to get an apprenticeship there?

It was Denel Ammunitions, They're coming back to the Campus at the beginning of next year, as they first want to see out=r first year progress before taking aprentices, so just chill as they are only taking registrations next year :D

Seriously Toxxyc? Computer science is probably the best degree you can get. Just research job prospects and career opportunities for comp sci majors, it's staggering! So relax, you'll have no problem getting a job if you know your **** well enough.

Computer science is the best degree... besides Computer Engineering of course, you silly little code monkeys :P

Just kidding, but seriously Toxxyc, Go for the degree dude, it will definetly not be a waste of time.

[Toxxyc]

Hoping to go for the degree, but I'm not getting feedback from Tuks. I've applied in time, submitted all and queried the wait three times now without answer. I'm giving them a call today, as it's becoming a more and more pressing issue to me now. Seriously becoming stressed out, which is not a good thing AFAIK.

[pArkEr]

What marks did you apply with? I'm not sure they'd have a proper honest yet tbh, they usually only let you know at the end of the year, depending on your marks. You should apply at other universities as well just in case, though I'm assuming you've already done that.

I actually wanted to study Computer Engineering, as the hardware side interests me a slight bit more than the software side. Don't have a choice at the moment though... and I could always pick up electronics as a hobby.

[Toxxyc]

I applied with my matric marks I was accepted with in 2009, which are all fine (got the same student number I got in 2009 as well). I applied at Tuks only as I don't know where else to study as traveling would be an issue, but the let me know about not being considered for Architecture almost immediately. This one is taking a very long time though, and it's becoming to bother me now as they said I should hear from them in 4~6 weeks after enrolling.

Thing is I hate talking to people over the phone and having to explain the same issue to them over and over again, but I think I've reached the crux of where I should draw the line now. Sigh. :(

[pArkEr]

I'm afraid you're just going to have to wait it out man. You were accepted in 2009 though, so I see no reason why they shouldn't accept you again. Unless you got lucky the last time...

[Toxxyc]

Nah, I applied for Electronic Engineering, and I got in easy (accepted almost instantly). I'm just worried as it's been quite some time since application and I've not heard anything yet. Going to call them now, as in within the next 2 minutes.

[Toxxyc]

Goody hell. Held for 30 minutes only to have them tell me that I'd just "have to wait" for them to finish with their ****, more than 9 weeks after I enrolled. FFS. Anyway. Does anyone know what places still offer similar degrees in the Pretoria area? I'm hoping to stay away from Unisa (for obvious reasons), but if some here can tell me that their degrees are still worth a little more than the paper it's printed on, I may consider them for a short while. Also, if I start at Unisa, can I transfer to Tuks next year or later on? I want to catch my degree at Tuks... :)

[Zoop]

Dude, July is still really early. You just have to be a little patient. I didn't hear back from Stellenbosch until late August, and I applied in April. Some of my friends only heard back from their respective institutions much later.

It sucks having to wait and not know what's going on, but that's life for you. :P