Official "Upgrade Help" Thread

[X-Gamer]

Thanx, um specs, well not the best but here goes:
2.4 Ghz Intel Processor(overclocked to 2.8Ghz)
1GB RAM
NVIDIA 6800XT 256mb
ASRock P4S61
450W PSU
250 Gb IDE HDD

I want to buy a game with the RAM so 6gigs not my best option

Eina Frikkie!
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=P4S61
Your motherboard is AGP, DDR1-400(3 slots, max 3GB), (Don't worry, i'm in the same club.)
so you CANT buy DDR2 (667,800,1066).

[@@GJC@@]

Oh well that sucks!! Thnx for the help any way, would have wasted my money on DDR2 if it werent for ure advice.

[Kharrak]

Okay, I recently took advantage of a delicious ASUS special at one of their opening CTT stores, and bought myself a Striker II Extreme Motherboard, and a GTX260.

However, their promised special on CPU's and RAM this weekend has apparently fallen through, meaning I am forced to get these at the same prices as common folk :P

SO

I would be very interested in advice regarding power supplies (750w), processors, and DDR3 RAM.

It's hard to say what budget restrictions I could advise... I had really planned around getting a processor and some DDR3 RAM on special. Obviously I don't want to spend a stupid amount of money, but I don't want to be forced into lower spec through restricting cash flow.

So, if it's possible, suggest a CPU, PSU, and DDR3 RAM combo that costs around the R3000 mark, the R4000 mark, and the R5000 mark.

Advice would be much appreciated :P

EDIT: To be a bit more specific on what I'm looking for, I'm aiming for staying power. I don't want to get top end, I want to get something that handles on max comfortably, and will do so for a nice while until I can upgrade again (in this case, when I eventually buy another 260 and run them together).

[Wesley]

Oh well that sucks!! Thnx for the help any way, would have wasted my money on DDR2 if it werent for ure advice.

I would have said the same thing, but I wasn't able to get onto the internet with my laptop in time to research your motherboard. Anyway, I found it today, and the only upgrade options you have with regards to memory is to get more. You basically are stuck with a motherboard, CPU, and RAM that has reached its end of life (in manufacturing terms). Anyway, if you want to get more memory, I suggest this:

Corsair ValueSelect Memory DDR400 1GB @ R495

As you can see, though, upgrading to 2GB presents a dilemma. It would cost you in the region of R1000. Spending that much money on a rig that is ageing fast won't be worth it. You're better off buying separate parts from the R4000 rig in my system builder's thread. R2000 will even buy you a decent motherboard, CPU, 2GB memory, and a budget GPU like a Nvidia 9400GT or ATi HD4650, which will be enough to play anything you throw at it at medium-to-high settings.

Okay, I recently took advantage of a delicious ASUS special at one of their opening CTT stores, and bought myself a Striker II Extreme Motherboard, and a GTX260.

However, their promised special on CPU's and RAM this weekend has apparently fallen through, meaning I am forced to get these at the same prices as common folk :P

SO

I would be very interested in advice regarding power supplies (750w), processors, and DDR3 RAM.

It's hard to say what budget restrictions I could advise... I had really planned around getting a processor and some DDR3 RAM on special. Obviously I don't want to spend a stupid amount of money, but I don't want to be forced into lower spec through restricting cash flow.

So, if it's possible, suggest a CPU, PSU, and DDR3 RAM combo that costs around the R3000 mark, the R4000 mark, and the R5000 mark.

Advice would be much appreciated :P

EDIT: To be a bit more specific on what I'm looking for, I'm aiming for staying power. I don't want to get top end, I want to get something that handles on max comfortably, and will do so for a nice while until I can upgrade again (in this case, when I eventually buy another 260 and run them together).

I like the motherboard you bagged yourself:



Very stylish. Now to find a CPU and the other jazzy stuff to make it work. Here's what I think you should get, assuming you have the option to move to a 64-bit OS (Windows 7 RC1 is perfect for this purpose):

PSU:
Vantec ioN2+A van-550A 80Plus @ R823

Option 1 (R3000)
Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 @ R1429
Kingston ValueRam 4GB DDR3-1333 (2x 2Gb) @ R945


Total: R3197

Option 2 (R4000)
Intel Core2 Duo E8500 @ R2283
Corsair XMS3 DHX DDR3-1600MHz 4GB (2 x 2GB) @ R1195

Total: R4301

Option 3 (R5000)
Intel Boxed Core2 Quad Q9550 @ R3273
Corsair XMS3 DHX DDR3-1600MHz 4GB (2 x 2GB) @ R1195

Total: R5291

Both option 2 and 3 are going to be much better value and deliver better performance than option 1. I would recommend option 3, simply because a quad-core with 12MB cache and a 2.83Ghz clockspeed falls just a little behind the Core i7 920 in gaming performance and applications, will last you about 3 years (max).

[BTROG]

I plan on upgrading my ECS 945GCT-M2 mobo for a ASUS P5KPL 1600 Intel G31 Motherboard, then adding 4x1GB 1066Mhz ram with a good cpu cooler so I can overclock my E2160 and slot in my current 9500GT overclocked to (core/memory) 800Mhz/1070Mhz gpu. Will this be a good investment guys?

[Wesley]

I plan on upgrading my ECS 945GCT-M2 mobo for a ASUS P5KPL 1600 Intel G31 Motherboard, then adding 4x1GB 1066Mhz ram with a good cpu cooler so I can overclock my E2160 and slot in my current 9500GT overclocked to (core/memory) 800Mhz/1070Mhz gpu. Will this be a good investment guys?

Rather settle for an MSI G31 motherboard (Take2 has one for under R500) and get yourself a 2*1GB DDR2-800 memory kit instead. If, however, you have access to Windows 7 RC1 64-bit, then I highly recommend getting a 2*2GB kit and giving 64-bit computing a try.

[@@GJC@@]

I would have said the same thing, but I wasn't able to get onto the internet with my laptop in time to research your motherboard. Anyway, I found it today, and the only upgrade options you have with regards to memory is to get more. You basically are stuck with a motherboard, CPU, and RAM that has reached its end of life (in manufacturing terms). Anyway, if you want to get more memory, I suggest this:

Corsair ValueSelect Memory DDR400 1GB @ R495

As you can see, though, upgrading to 2GB presents a dilemma. It would cost you in the region of R1000. Spending that much money on a rig that is ageing fast won't be worth it. You're better off buying separate parts from the R4000 rig in my system builder's thread. R2000 will even buy you a decent motherboard, CPU, 2GB memory, and a budget GPU like a Nvidia 9400GT or ATi HD4650, which will be enough to play anything you throw at it at medium-to-high settings.

I totally agree. I definately dont want to waste R500 on 1 GB where I could have gotten close to 4 GB DDR2 for the same price. I will check out the rig you 'built' on the system builders thread and do some more browsing on the web for some specials on good products. I have another question though. Can you upgrade to an AMD processor and then keep your Nvidia GPU. In other words is it safe to run a AMD an Nvidia setup

[Lysis]

Yes, you can run the two different brands together.

[@@GJC@@]

Yes, you can run the two different brands together.

Ok tnx, just wanted to make sure before buying a combination I would regret.

I have another question. As far as I know (I speak under correction here) games are made using the 32-bit system. Now Quad-core processors are 64-bit. So theoretically if you have a 1.5 Ghz Quad-core system and you buy a game that needs a 3.0 Ghz Dual core processor the game should work. Is this true or does it not work like this when u put it into practice???????
Why I want to know this is because if the previous statement was correct than buying a 2.6 Ghz Quad-core processor whould be good enough for someone on a tight budget.

Also is upgrading to a graphics card with 1GB RAM really worth it for most games because 1GB GPU's are pretty pricy or is a 512MB card better out of a financial view point.(Forgive me if I have asked this question before and just forgotten about it, my mind is pretty busy)

[Wesley]

Ok tnx, just wanted to make sure before buying a combination I would regret.

I have another question. As far as I know (I speak under correction here) games are made using the 32-bit system. Now Quad-core processors are 64-bit. So theoretically if you have a 1.5 Ghz Quad-core system and you buy a game that needs a 3.0 Ghz Dual core processor the game should work. Is this true or does it not work like this when u put it into practice???????
Why I want to know this is because if the previous statement was correct than buying a 2.6 Ghz Quad-core processor whould be good enough for someone on a tight budget.

Also is upgrading to a graphics card with 1GB RAM really worth it for most games because 1GB GPU's are pretty pricy or is a 512MB card better out of a financial view point.(Forgive me if I have asked this question before and just forgotten about it, my mind is pretty busy)

In response to your earlier question, you're able to run any combination of processor with any graphics card, although the performance of the graphics card gets better with a stronger processor, up to a point where its running at full speed. If you run a fast graphics card with a slow processor, the processor becomes a bottleneck, severely limiting the amount of performance on offer.

You are right about the assumption that games are made for 32-bit systems. It also happens that any 32-bit application will run on a 64-bit operating system as well, since 64-bit computers allow the 32-bit app to run at full speed (one might even see performance improvements when moving from 32 to 64-bit). Where you are wrong, however, is your assumptions about quad-cores. Firstly, all processors currently on the market are fully 32/64-bit compatible. They will run in either mode perfectly without any performance hassles.

Secondly, a quad-core running at 1.5Ghz is worth ****all. Any half-decent Dual-core with at least 2MB cache and a 2.0Ghz clockspeed can kick that quad to death. If you now start to think that clockspeeds are more important, then you are correct - most games and applications are still reliant on clockspeed to get the job done fast, and these are known as single-threaded applications. In combination with clockspeeds, games and applications are now becoming multi-threaded; increasing their performance with the help of extra cores to work with. It hasn't always been this way, but the general market has now moved on and accepted that multiple processors are the best way forward - look at the shops online, how many of them now stock single-core processors? Very few, if any, still do.

At the moment, most games and applications, and even operating systems are being coded to work better with two cores. Crysis, Warcraft, and Call of Duty 4 are all perfect examples of games that scale up in performance with two cores. Grand Theft Auto IV is one of the rare few that recommend a triple-core, and Supreme Commander scales superbly on a quad-core. This doesn't extend to all titles, however, only the really power-hungry ones need more than two cores. Supreme Commander is a perfect example of this, as the battlefields and number of units on the screen at any given time number in the thousands. GTAIV has a massive virtual city that must run like clockwork - to achieve this, it needs more power. For most gamers, a Dual-core with a high clockspeed and sizeable cache will run most games perfectly (for example, the AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Black Edition, or the Intel E7400).

On the subject of graphics cards, the amount of memory required really depends on the screen you use and the resolution you play your games on. If you run a 19inch Widescreen LCD at its native resolution, then 512MB of memory is perfect. If you have a 22inch LCD, 512MB of memory is also acceptable, so long as you dont play at high settings with AA or FSAA enabled (these are programs that smooth and straighten out the lines you see in games, making it seem much more life-like). If you absolutely have to play with high levels of AA, then you need more than 512MB of memory to avoid things like frame drop and game freezes or crashes.

[Predator]

Hi everybody. I just have a quick question to ask. I am looking into getting myself another HDD. I already have a 250gb Sea gate barracuda. So I am looking for about a 320gb one. Is there any place besides Take 2 or prophesy that will be cheaper.

One more thing I only buy Sea Gate hardrives I have had many bad experiences with western digital hardrives in the past and I am cautious of them.

Thanks

[Wesley]

Hi everybody. I just have a quick question to ask. I am looking into getting myself another HDD. I already have a 250gb Sea gate barracuda. So I am looking for about a 320gb one. Is there any place besides Take 2 or prophesy that will be cheaper.

One more thing I only buy Sea Gate hardrives I have had many bad experiences with western digital hardrives in the past and I am cautious of them.

Thanks

Go onto the System Builder's thread and navigate to the first page. In all of my builds I recommend a 500GB Seagate SATA hard drive for about R650. Click on the link and order one already!

[BTROG]

Thankx 4 the advice Wesley but what kind of frame rates can I get with that type of computer.

[Wesley]

Thankx 4 the advice Wesley but what kind of frame rates can I get with that type of computer.

You'll get about the same frames you get now, maybe a few more, and you'll have better stability and everything'll feel smoother. The real benefit, though is that with the newer motherboard you can take the E2160 and overclock it to about 3Ghz.

If I remember correctly, the chip runs at 1.8Ghz at stock frequencies, with a multiplier of 9 and an FSB of 800. The G31 chipset allows an FSB of 1333, so lets work it out in steps. Running the E2160 at 1066 FSB should result in a clockspeed of 2.4Ghz. Upping the FSB would result in a clockspeed of 3Ghz on the spot, all without tweaking voltages. You'll see a massive increase in performance, and I garner this would increase your frames by about 20fps max at your current settings.

All over the internet there is a general consensus that the E2160 hits a wall at just beyond 1333 FSB, so you should get to that sweet 3Ghz no problem. Plus, all you have to do is change two things in the BIOS: the CPU frequency and the memory frequency. Everything else wont require tweaks at all.

[@@GJC@@]

Thanx for your help Wesley. (Sorry toooo long to quote) I now better understand the relationship between 32/64-bit games and processors. Another question I want to ask:
I noted that 65nm processors are getting quite a bit cheaper, and cheaper is what I need. Are the 45nm processors really substansually better or is it better to buy a cheaper 65nm with the same performance (clock speeds) and then maybe use the remaining money saved on a better GPU for example.

[Wesley]

Thanx for your help Wesley. (Sorry toooo long to quote) I now better understand the relationship between 32/64-bit games and processors. Another question I want to ask:
I noted that 65nm processors are getting quite a bit cheaper, and cheaper is what I need. Are the 45nm processors really substansually better or is it better to buy a cheaper 65nm with the same performance (clock speeds) and then maybe use the remaining money saved on a better GPU for example.

It didn't take too long to write that ;-)

For lower temperatures and higher overclocking ability, 45nm is the way to go. 65nm is still great, and as you said yourself, its getting cheaper too. But it really depends on the processor you're looking at.

Take the E2200, its a 65nm chip and allows for decent overclocks. It also retails for under R700, and is a staple for most gamers and system builders looking for good value. The E5200 is a step up from this, being based on 45nm process, double the cache and a higher default clockspeed.

The E5200 also has the ability to overclock past 3.6Ghz, something the E2200 could never hope to do. Once overclocked, it even makes a fool out of the AMD 9550 quad-core, which is definitely a sign that 45nm is the best choice. I really want a E5300, it will rock the socks off the AMD 7750 and most of their older quads, too.

If you want to save money when buying a new pc, rather look at what else you'd like to bag in with the CPU and what the computer is mainly going to be used for. I bet that the E5300 would suffice for anything once overclocked.

[@@GJC@@]

Ok uhm how much does the E5200 cost and is the oc potential you mentioned with the stock cooler??

[BTROG]

You'll get about the same frames you get now, maybe a few more, and you'll have better stability and everything'll feel smoother. The real benefit, though is that with the newer motherboard you can take the E2160 and overclock it to about 3Ghz.

If I remember correctly, the chip runs at 1.8Ghz at stock frequencies, with a multiplier of 9 and an FSB of 800. The G31 chipset allows an FSB of 1333, so lets work it out in steps. Running the E2160 at 1066 FSB should result in a clockspeed of 2.4Ghz. Upping the FSB would result in a clockspeed of 3Ghz on the spot, all without tweaking voltages. You'll see a massive increase in performance, and I garner this would increase your frames by about 20fps max at your current settings.

All over the internet there is a general consensus that the E2160 hits a wall at just beyond 1333 FSB, so you should get to that sweet 3Ghz no problem. Plus, all you have to do is change two things in the BIOS: the CPU frequency and the memory frequency. Everything else wont require tweaks at all.

Sounds sweet thankx Wesley but do I have to have Windows 7 RC1 64-bit to run 2x2GB ddr2 800Mhz ram?

[Tryxst3r]

...but do I have to have Windows 7 RC1 64-bit to run 2x2GB ddr2 800Mhz ram?

A 32bit OS (like Windows XP 32bit and Windows 7 32bit) can have a maximum of 4 gigs of RAM. You shouldn't have any issues.

A 64bit OS can run as much RAM as you could possible want (yet there is still a limit. Anyone know what it is? I'm too lazy to google it :P).

[Wesley]

Ok uhm how much does the E5200 cost and is the oc potential you mentioned with the stock cooler??

The overclock potential is around 3.6Ghz with the stock cooler, and 3.9Ghz should be within reach if using something xheap like the Cooler Master Hyper TX-2.

Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5200 @ R770

Sounds sweet thankx Wesley but do I have to have Windows 7 RC1 64-bit to run 2x2GB ddr2 800Mhz ram?

You don't have to have it, but once you go 64-bit, you'll never want to go back to anything less. Trust me.

A 32bit OS (like Windows XP 32bit and Windows 7 32bit) can have a maximum of 4 gigs of RAM. You shouldn't have any issues.

A 64bit OS can run as much RAM as you could possible want (yet there is still a limit. Anyone know what it is? I'm too lazy to google it :P).

It can run with 4GB of RAM, but you won't be able to use all of that. At the very least, you'll see 3.5GB of RAM in the properties window of the computer because it uses the "missing" 500MB RAM to cover the hardware address space allocated to hardware that has the ability to directly interface with the RAM.

Oh, and 64-bit computers can address a maximum of 16.8 terabytes of RAM, but we can only use 48 of those 64 bits currently (meaning the total is limited to around 10TB, for now).