Official "System Builders" Thread

[Chevron]

Moderator note:

Since Chev's been away for a while (ages, in fact) his post is severely outdated and was last changed in 2010. If anyone new sees this landing page, I'll be doing the AMD builds from now on, since Chev took over those when we started this whole thing.

- Wes

[Wesley]

Hello boys and girls, welcome to the System Builders thread! Here you can see what components you can afford under a set budget, as well as ask how far you can stretch your money when building a new pc.

Since I started this thread with Chevron back in the day, I've been hired as a freelancer for NAG Online as their technical writer. I've been doing this on-and-off since college days and I'm regularly publishing System Builders guides and Laptop buyer's guides for the online section of the magazine, which I'll link and update regularly below.

System Builder's Guide:
Laptop Buyer's Guide

This thread is for peeps who want a COMPLETE new system, built from scratch with your hard-earned money. If you need any advice about putting together your own system, come ask your questions here and we'll guide you through this painless process. If you run into problems later, ask about them on the Official Computer Problems thread; we promise we'll find a solution for you or point you to the relevant Google search.

If you read on below, you'll see our list of components for different price ranges. I'll be handling the Intel parts, and Chev will do AMD, and all these categories will be updated frequently.

Note: The below builds are only to be used as a yardstick. These are the parts I would use if it was my money, but it?s also to give you a frame of reference to work in. If you wanted to compare performance, consider that the R4000 budget build can probably play Crysis 2 on 1280 x 720 at medium settings, with frames around 50FPs (quite a step up from the old days, let me tell you). The more expensive builds go all the way to the extreme, and will be easily able to achieve over 50FPS with any game at 2560 x 1440 at High or Ultra high settings.

Because I regularly stick Intel processors in my Buyer's guides, here's where my AMD recommendations will be for those of you still with some semblance of interest in the Bulldozer and APU platform. With socket FM2 and Piledriver on the way, as well as promises from AMD to improve things even further with Steamroller, things are still looking up for the red camp.

I'll also be usually sticking to SLI rigs for AMD chips in future. Why? Mainly because Crossfire actually requires a strong CPU to run things smoothly. There's a bit of a performance overhead associated with it, whereas with SLI rigs that overhead is taken off by the CUDA processors inside Nvidia's GPUs. Thus, SLI combos with a Core i7 3770 and a FX-8150 should deal out the same performance, processor dependencies aside for the games that like better single-threaded performance per core. Lower-end Crossfire setups will work just fine, but the minute you start thinking about dual HD7950s is the same time you should be running a Core i5 or i7 quad-core processor.

.................................................. .................................................. ................................

So why AMD?

Mainly because their performance has been lackluster for the best part of two years. With the old Phenom and Athlon stalwarts gone and Rory Read declaring that the CPU performance war with Intel was over for the company, many enthusiasts and fans have taken that as a sign of giving up. In the interim, there is a few strong performance turn-ins from the FX-4100 and AMD's quad-core APU chips, but there's not enough consumer interest to keep prices down and stock levels high. AMD's push with Trinity-based laptops and Piledriver desktop chips hopes to renew customer's and investor's faith in the company by having strong, efficient chips on all markets.

A side note though. All of AMD's chips, with the exception of embedded Llano models and others with a locked motherboard BIOS, can be overclocked. The K-series chips feature an unlocked multiplier in the same fashion as the Black Edition family, but don't feature larger cache sets. For larger cache and an unlocked multiplier, you have the AM3+ FX chips to rely on. Those chips also have no built-in GPU, which means that all motherboards designed for FX chip use require a discrete graphics card.

In the long-term, the lack of an on-board GPU won't hurt the sales or performance of the FX series. Even with OpenCL acceleration slowly taking off and relying more on the APUs graphics cores, you'll still be able to enlist the help of a discrete AMD GPU or Nvidia's CUDA for your acceleration needs.

As for the chips themselves, AMD is still stuck producing 32nm parts where Intel leapfrogged them to the 22nm generation. Bulldozer's design, however, works well enough at 32nm and AMD will likely tweak the design further with Piledriver and make sure that their jump to 22nm with Steamroller is a success. Intel's chips, meanwile, all fall under the 100W TDP level and all are 22nm-based with the exception of older Sandy Bridge models.
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................

Best Build for R4000:(720p and high settings, 1080p and high with lowered frame rates, some AA)

AMD APU A4-3400 @ R778
MSI A75MA-G55 @ R796
TEAM Elite DDR3-1600 4GB @ R197
MSI Radeon HD6770 1GB DDR5 @ R1119
Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB @ R546
LG GH24NS90 @ R167
Thermaltake V2 with 350W PSU @ R335

Total: R3938

Best Intel Build for R6000: (1080p and high settings + 2x AA, 2560 x 1440 and medium settings + no AA)

AMD A6-3670K @ R1197
MSI A75MA-G55 @ R796
TEAM Elite DDR3-1600 8GB @ R394
Leadtek Geforce GTX560 1GB DDR5 @ R1791
OCZ Agility 3 60GB @ R667
Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB @ R546
LG GH24NS90 @ R167
Cooler Master Elite 311 @ R321
Cooler Master GX 450W @ R598

Total: R5931

Here I just have to step in and mention why I consider this build special. All of the value comes from the ability to overclock your components for better performance. The quad-core A6-3670K is able to reach 3.5GHz without much trouble and you'd easily squeeze some extra juice from the GTX560. More crucially, the fact that higher-priced components wouldn't give me the performance leap I was hoping for means that I have room to spare for a SSD. Do install your OS and one or two games on there that you play frequently, and use the 320GB HDD for the rest of your data. If you have hard drives from previous rigs left over, then dump the HDD in this build and opt for a 128 GB SSD instead.

Best Build for R8000: (1080p and ultra settings + max AA, 2560 x 1440 and high settings + 2x AA, multi-monitor + no AA)

AMD FX-4100 @ R1305
ASRock 990FX Extreme3 AM3+ @ R1260
TEAM Elite DDR3-1600 8GB @ R394
Sapphire Radeon HD7850 1GB DDR5 @ R2515
OCZ Agility 3 120GB @ R996
Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB @ R546
LG GH24NS90 @ R167
Cooler Master Elite 311 @ R321
SilverStone ST60F-ES @ R665

Total: R8169

Again, another mention here. because the needs of the rig are fulfilled for the most part, I decided a SSD inclusion was a worth place to boost performance further. You can overclock the rig to extreme highs thanks to the FX-4100 with an unlocked multiplier and the HD7850 is a worthy performer, even though a bit crippled with 1GB of RAM. Cheap 2GB units aren't being stocked in fast enough I'm afraid, leaving this unit as the only option.

Best Build for R10,00 (1080p with ultra settings + max AA, 2560 x 1440 with high settings + 2x AA, multi-monitor at medium to high + no AA)

AMD FX-8120 @ R1964
ASRock 990FX Extreme3 AM3+ @ R1260
TEAM Elite DDR3-1600 16GB @ R788
PNY Geforce GTX660 XLR8 OC edition 2GB DDR5 @ R3235
OCZ Agility 3 120GB @ R996
Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB @ R546
LG GH24NS90 @ R167
Antec Two Hundred V2 @ R478
SilverStone ST60F-ES @ R665

Total: R10,097

Best Build for R14,000: (1080p with ultra settings + max AA, 2560 x 1440 with ultra settings + 2x AA, multi-monitor at high + no AA)

AMD FX-8120 @ R1964
ASRock 990FX Extreme4 AM3+ @ R1595
TEAM Elite DDR3-1600 16GB @ R788
KFA² Geforce GTX680 2GB DDR5 @ R5440
OCZ Agility 3 120GB @ R996
Seagate Barracuda 1TB @ R752
LG GH24NS90 @ R167
Corsair GS700 @ R917
Antec Three Hundred Two @ R679
Corsair H60 Hydro @ R774

Total: R14,072

Here its best to choose the cheaper FX-8120 and overclock it using the unlocked multiplier and a water-cooling unit. The Geforce GTX680 also makes its first appearance here, being a stronger performer in most games and benchmarks than the GTX670, but not by much in the high-end. Where it will count is in the minimum framerate region, where the extra shader will improve performance there. Should anyone not like the GTX680 as a value proposition, replace it with this GTX670 from MSI and bang up the SSD to a 240GB unit.

Best Build for R20,000 (any resolution at Ultra settings, highest AA settings included)

AMD FX-8120 @ R1964
ASRock 990FX Extreme4 AM3+ @ R1595
TEAM Elite DDR3-1600 16GB @ R788
Sapphire Radeon HD7950 OC 3GB DDR5 Xfire @ R8228
OCZ Agility 4 256GB @ R2117
Seagate Barracuda 1TB @ R752
Corsair TX850 V2 @ R1556
Antec Eleven Hundred @ R1113
ASUS BC-12B1LT @ R897
Corsair H100 Hydro @ R1171

Total: R20,181

Seriously, the only way you could top this is if you can substitute a Core i5-3570K and a Z77 board for the FX-8120, with everything left the same. With this much hardware crammed in, Intel Core i7 builds at the same price point will have a trying time keeping up, especially in a multi-monitor environment.

[Wesley]

Update: Because chassis options have changed drastically since my last edit of this post in 2009, I only have a few tips. Go online and find reviews of your chassis that build hardware into it for testing. Make a guess at how long your hardware is before you make your purchase decisions, which should be based on:

• Bottom-place PSU mounting
• Enough space for decent cable management
• Front-panel USB 3.0 support (with a header or USB cable)
• One 120mm intake and one 120mm exhaust fan
• Chassis height
• Placement of 2.5" drives
• Amount of hard drives you can fit inside
• Ensure there's enough length for your GPU to fit in

Later on I may make a few recommendations based on a particular chassis doing something extra ordinary, but for now the ball is in your court.

[Chevron]

Not sure what size psu you need?
http://www.antec.outervision.com/

Just make sure to add around 50-100watts for some breathing room.

10% capacitor ageing is fine unless you keep your pc on 24/7, in which case use 20%.

Peripherals

Get one of these if you have too many fans and not enough plugs.

Zalman ZM-MC1 - 4pin

If you want to run 4 monitors you might want this:

Aavara TS744 Quattro flip mount 4x lcd stand - 4 independent swing arms

[J3n0va]

Would a system like this be okay?

Mother Board - MSI Intel P45 Neo-F = R 1,266

GFX card - Force3D HD4670 512mb = R1183.94 (inc VAT)

CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93Ghz = R1907

PSU - Cooler Master Extreme Power 550w = R735

Chassis - Cooler Master 690 Chassis = R 996

Ram - Corsair XMS2 Memory - DDR2-800MHz - 4GB Kit (2 x 2GB) = R 844

Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar SE 320GB = R664

Keyboard - Razer Arctosa Gaming Keyboard = R 551

Mouse - Zboard Reaper ZMS-1000 Gaming Mouse = R 254

Sound Card - Creative Sound Blaster Audigy Value PCI Sound Card = R 440

Speakers - Logitech X-230 2.1 Speakers Price = R 645

HeadPhones - Skullcandy Lowrider Headphones = R 333


Total = R9818

[Cleric]

I swear I bought an MSI Neo-F about 2-3 years ago for that same price. I'm sure that you can get a better mobo for that cost.
That said, I've had it for ages, and I still think it's doing an alright job. Just make sure that you get the updated JMicro drivers if you buy it. And update the bios to version 10.

[Chippit]

K, somebody needs to give me a good reason why we need this thread and why it couldn't fit into the upgrade thread (which is already a damned sticky), or I'm going to merge them. We don't need another dedicated hardware thread; we have 3 already, and they're pretty much all-inclusive as it is.

[Wesley]

K, somebody needs to give me a good reason why we need this thread and why it couldn't fit into the upgrade thread (which is already a damned sticky), or I'm going to merge them. We don't need another dedicated hardware thread; we have 3 already, and they're pretty much all-inclusive as it is.

I will pm you the most lenghtly, long-assed reason about why we needed this thread in a few minutes, but to sum it up nicely, I ran the thread idea through Miktar first and he liked it.

Would a system like this be okay?
Mother Board - MSI Intel P45 Neo-F = R 1,266
GFX card - Force3D HD4670 512mb = R1183.94 (inc VAT)
CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93Ghz = R1907
PSU - Cooler Master Extreme Power 550w = R735
Chassis - Cooler Master 690 Chassis = R 996
Ram - Corsair XMS2 Memory - DDR2-800MHz - 4GB Kit (2 x 2GB) = R 844
Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar SE 320GB = R664
Keyboard - Razer Arctosa Gaming Keyboard = R 551
Mouse - Zboard Reaper ZMS-1000 Gaming Mouse = R 254
Sound Card - Creative Sound Blaster Audigy Value PCI Sound Card = R 440
Speakers - Logitech X-230 2.1 Speakers Price = R 645
HeadPhones - Skullcandy Lowrider Headphones = R 333
Total = R9818

That system build would easily rock hard, although might I suggest adding at least R800 to your budget and getting a stronger graphics card, like the Nvidia 9600GT 0r 9800GT? The HD4670 is really a mainstream, low-budget card, and it wont last as long as the 9600GT will when it comes to game performance at high settings. You might even be lucky and find an HD4830 with that increased budget as well, if you'd rather prefer to run an ATi graphics card with your system.

Where are you planning to order from?

I swear I bought an MSI Neo-F about 2-3 years ago for that same price. I'm sure that you can get a better mobo for that cost.
That said, I've had it for ages, and I still think it's doing an alright job. Just make sure that you get the updated JMicro drivers if you buy it. And update the bios to version 10.

Thanks for the heads-up, I was wondering who I could ask on the forums that had owned a Neo-F mobo.

See Chev? Its already working ;)

[Ch@pS]

MSI? Any chance of using a better motherboard brand? ;) You can get an Asus P5Q for marginally more than that, and its the superior motherboard by far.

Best Intel Build for R8000:

Intel Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93Ghz = R1907
MSI Intel P45 Neo-F = R1266
4GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2 – 800 2 x 2GB = R844
HIS ATI Radeon HD4830 512MB = R1782
Western Digital Caviar SE 320GB = R664
Aero Cool I-Curve Chassis = R585
Gigabyte Keyboard and Mouse Combo = R173
Cooler Master Extreme Power 460w = R543

Total: R7764

Why not replace this with an E7400 for R1382? Then put the extra money into a better gfx card, say a 4850? Or use little extra and get yourself a 500GB hard drive for R750? Alternatively find an E8400/E8500 and get bang for your buck due to the incrased cache size?

Best Intel Build for R10000:

Intel Core 2 Quadro Q8200 2.33Ghz = R2371
MSI Intel P45 Neo-F = R1266
4GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2 – 800 2 x 2GB = R844
HIS ATI Radeon HD4850 512MB = R2293
Western Digital Caviar SE 640GB = R1092
Gigabyte Keyboard and Mouse Combo = R173
Cooler Master Extreme Power 550w = R735
Cooler Master CM690 Chassis = R1010

I would replace this quad with an E8x00 series processor. Will be far more viable for 99% of users, a fast dualie here is worth it. Then spend the money on getting a 1TB hard drive.

Uber l33t Intel Build for R15000:

Intel Core 2 Quadro Q9550 2.83Ghz = R3814
MSI Intel P45 Neo3-FR = R1915
Palit Ati Radeon HD4870 Sonic 512MB = R3690
4GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2 – 800 2 x 2GB = R844
Western Digital Caviar SE 1TB = R1481
Cooler Master Extreme Power 650w = R1039
Cooler Master CM690 Chassis = R1010
Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard = R875
Logitech 920-000292 Cordless Desktop Wave Kbd+Mouse = R1017

Hideously overpriced CPU boarding on that of the I7 920, not worth it at all. Stick to the E8500 here or even look at an E8600 if you're scared of overclocking, will still be far cheaper. For that mobo price you can have a look at the Asus P5Q deluxe, or a DFI/Gigabyte equivalent. The G11 is a waste, rather replace it with something like the X6, but thats all about preference. Why does this system need two keyboards though?(bolded part)

I'm not even going to get started on Chevrons AMD systems, rather save that battle of the fanboys for another time. but :

Peripherals

Mouse:

Logitech MX518 Price: R 506

Logitech G5 Laser Mouse - Special Edition Price: R 761

The G5 is a laser mouse and has a variable weight cartridge system

The MX518 has seen its day, I'd rather mention some Razer mice and the like.

Keyboard:

Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard Price: R 800.55

Logitech G15 Keyboard Price: R 1,092

If you're gonna spend this much on a Key board I'd take the G15 as it has the lcd screen. Some say it's gimmicky, but once you're used to it. It gets missed. Some games have support for the lcd screen as well.

If you're not gonna use the lcd or the programmable buttons, both of these are a waste.

One again no Razer boards, no Enermax boards, no microsoft boards.

While this thread is a good idea, i think it needs some work. Rather have a catagory for each PC component, and list the component in price order, and link each component to a review(or do a mini review yourself if you have experience with it.)

So for eg :

Motherboards

Board 1 : price : review
Board 2 : more expensive price : review
Board 3 : Most expensive price : review

CPUS


CPU 1 : price : review
CPU 2 : more expensive price : review
CPU 3 : Most expensive price : review

A better idea IMO.

[Wesley]

<Seriously helpful post>

Thanks Chaps, we needed a more experienced opinion. As for the builds, I only did them this morning in, like, two hours. I'll make changes to the builds as time goes along, and I'll certainly look at the changes you suggested. Btw, the two-keyboard thing was actually a mistake, I only saw it much later today.

Perhaps you'd like to lend a hand in this thread? We need an experienced overclocker who changes motherboards like he changes clothes :p

I'll try make those changes within the next week or so, we were going to continually edit our posts anyway. ;) Thanks again for the help.

[>>PyRoN<<]

Holy **** i was just about to ask for something like this in the computar halp thread!!

Needed some advice with GFX cards. Thank you oh, great and time-bearing NAG friends.

[Ch@pS]

Lol anytime, wasn't trying to knock you guys at all, its a great idea that just needs a little refining.

If you want I can send you mini reviews(like 150 words) on every relevent motherboard I've tested so far(around 30 odd intel ones) that you can possibly link. Same goes for CPUs, and GPUs really.

[McDangerous]

J3nova, i got an HD4670 a while back and it kicks more ass than mike tyson. I play crysis at high (Besides Shadows) at 1680x1050 at an average of 27fps even in the most intense parts. UT3 at above res at 60+fps. the force3d gets a bit toasty at times, but awesome otherwise, especially when u consider the price. and i know, sometimes that extra R400 is just R400 too far

[Wesley]

Lol anytime, wasn't trying to knock you guys at all, its a great idea that just needs a little refining.

If you want I can send you mini reviews(like 150 words) on every relevent motherboard I've tested so far(around 30 odd intel ones) that you can possibly link. Same goes for CPUs, and GPUs really.

If you could do that you would be god-like ;) my e-mail is fickwesley@hotmail.com. Also, lets rather keep our chats in pm form, you'll see why later.

J3nova, i got an HD4670 a while back and it kicks more ass than mike tyson. I play crysis at high (Besides Shadows) at 1680x1050 at an average of 27fps even in the most intense parts. UT3 at above res at 60+fps. the force3d gets a bit toasty at times, but awesome otherwise, especially when u consider the price. and i know, sometimes that extra R400 is just R400 too far

While I appreciate what you did Tieron, please dont do this again. Guys and girls, I'm going to lay down some ground rules for this thread later on, which has to be adhered to, even by me. In the meantime, please rather send things like this in a pm to the other user, rather than congest this thread and turn it into something like the Hardware Upgrade one. For the moment, Chevron, possibly Chaps and myself are in charge here, and we are supposed to keep this thread tidy so that the mods have less work to do and dont end up locking this thread, so please dont chit-chat here and get us into ****. That is all, kthnxbai.

[Chevron]

The reason i didn't mention any razor nice is because i haven't had any experience with them. Also 90% of the guys on the prophecy forums have only had problems with razor mice.

As for razor keyboards, again no experience with them. I did have a G15 though, before i spilled cold drink on it. Twice. I loved it. Will be getting that G19 i think it's called with the full colour lcd.

Like snow patrol said though. Give hints and tips and we'll edit our posts. Neither one of us has used every piece of hardware ever. So any help is appreciated.

Just keep in mind that not everyone overclocks. Adding the cost of extra cooling into a build is a waste if the person isn't going to be making use of it. Also with regards to hard drive sizes everyone has different requirements. The reason i chose the 320 for my build is most people want a smaller drive for their windows drive. It's also good value for the price. You need to keep in mind not everyone wants, or can even afford a bigger drive. The extra money is better spent of performance. The guys that need the space will be buying their 1tb regardless of what's recommended here. The idea is to try give a good basic build.

[Ch@pS]

The reason i didn't mention any razor nice is because i haven't had any experience with them. Also 90% of the guys on the prophecy forums have only had problems with razor mice.

As for razor keyboards, again no experience with them. I did have a G15 though, before i spilled cold drink on it. Twice. I loved it. Will be getting that G19 i think it's called with the full colour lcd.

Then how can you head up a system builders thread with limited experience? Obviously you'll suggest what you've tested out and ignore what you havent, thus cutting choice down quite a fair bit. ;) The problems with Razer(notice the E not O) mice were limited to the older models, I've used pretty much every model and havent had a problem yet, even after putting my Razer Krait through tons of abuse.

Like snow patrol said though. Give hints and tips and we'll edit our posts. Neither one of us has used every piece of hardware ever. So any help is appreciated.

Just keep in mind that not everyone overclocks. Adding the cost of extra cooling into a build is a waste if the person isn't going to be making use of it. Also with regards to hard drive sizes everyone has different requirements. The reason i chose the 320 for my build is most people want a smaller drive for their windows drive. It's also good value for the price. You need to keep in mind not everyone wants, or can even afford a bigger drive. The extra money is better spent of performance. The guys that need the space will be buying their 1tb regardless of what's recommended here. The idea is to try give a good basic build.

Ok, first off most 320GB hard drives still use the older 160GB platters AFAIK, meaning slow read/write compared to a hard drive that uses a 250GB platter(eg a 500GB), which will be slower than say a 640GB using a 320GB platter etc etc. The 320GBs are nice, but money saved from overpriced quads is well worth being spent on more space. I wasnt thinking of overclocking here at all, i suggested the Asus motherboards over the MSI boards, simply because they are better. MSI make gaming motherboards(I think Neos column a few months back set the tone on those) while Asus make high quality boards ranging from entry level (P5Q) through to the higher end. Its worth spending R200 extra on the Asus, from personal experience.

Quads are overpriced, and since most apps STILL don't use the 4 cores, they are STILL a waste.(IMO) The general consumer is far better off with an E8x00 series CPU than a Q8X00 series CPU. If you disagree, simple solution, you come up with a test, a daily routine of a normal gamer/non overclocker, and ways to measure the performance. I'll then test an E8500 and a Q9550 at STOCK to see which one will benefit the user more. Then you'll see how much of a waste they are. You'll see that the extra performance(if ANY in day to day life) does not justify the price tag at all.

[J3n0va]

That system build would easily rock hard, although might I suggest adding at least R800 to your budget and getting a stronger graphics card, like the Nvidia 9600GT 0r 9800GT? The HD4670 is really a mainstream, low-budget card, and it wont last as long as the 9600GT will when it comes to game performance at high settings. You might even be lucky and find an HD4830 with that increased budget as well, if you'd rather prefer to run an ATi graphics card with your system.

Where are you planning to order from?

Thanks for the advice. I'm still looking for a reliable supplier =)

[Chevron]

Then how can you head up a system builders thread with limited experience? Obviously you'll suggest what you've tested out and ignore what you havent, thus cutting choice down quite a fair bit. ;) The problems with Razer(notice the E not O) mice were limited to the older models, I've used pretty much every model and havent had a problem yet, even after putting my Razer Krait through tons of abuse.

Does the "Lachesis" count as old?

Ok, first off most 320GB hard drives still use the older 160GB platters AFAIK, meaning slow read/write compared to a hard drive that uses a 250GB platter(eg a 500GB), which will be slower than say a 640GB using a 320GB platter etc etc. The 320GBs are nice, but money saved from overpriced quads is well worth being spent on more space. I wasnt thinking of overclocking here at all, i suggested the Asus motherboards over the MSI boards, simply because they are better. MSI make gaming motherboards(I think Neos column a few months back set the tone on those) while Asus make high quality boards ranging from entry level (P5Q) through to the higher end. Its worth spending R200 extra on the Asus, from personal experience.

Yes, I know that increased aerial density makes the drives faster. I know that most people still like to keep a smaller drive for windows in case their windows ever stuffs out. It's easier and quicker to back up and format a 320gig drive compared to a 750gig drive.

Again, not everyone needs that much space. Some people think 60gigs is a lot of space. Someone that only uses their pc for mp3s a 320gig is perfect. Someone that needs more space will still add their 1TB to the build.

Quads are overpriced, and since most apps STILL don't use the 4 cores, they are STILL a waste.(IMO) The general consumer is far better off with an E8x00 series CPU than a Q8X00 series CPU. If you disagree, simple solution, you come up with a test, a daily routine of a normal gamer/non overclocker, and ways to measure the performance. I'll then test an E8500 and a Q9550 at STOCK to see which one will benefit the user more. Then you'll see how much of a waste they are. You'll see that the extra performance(if ANY in day to day life) does not justify the price tag at all.

Considering the people that frequent these forums most have more than 1 or 2 apps open at a time. Even if each app itself isn't multithreaded, you still have a nippier system. How many people do you think encode videos on these forums?

Also more and more games perform better with more cores GTAIV being one of the bigger examples. Even an oldish game like Supreme Commander performs better with more cores. Also not all people upgrade as often as enthusiasts do. For a pc that has to last 3 years+ a quad will is infinitely better.

[Cleric]

On the quad-core issue, the Q8300 comes out next week, and looks damn well priced. If I were upgrading now, it would be a tough call between that an an equal priced E8x00.

[Ch@pS]

Does the "Lachesis" count as old?

Nope, but my Lachesis worked perfectly well, so do the 2 or 3 friends' who own them. You'll notice that Seraph, the guy who started the thread, fixed him problem by moving his mouse cable. And in that thread are good and bad reports of razer products.

Yes, I know that increased aerial density makes the drives faster. I know that most people still like to keep a smaller drive for windows in case their windows ever stuffs out. It's easier and quicker to back up and format a 320gig drive compared to a 750gig drive.

Then why not go for two of the smaller drives? Two 500GBs maybe? My question remians, why wouldn't you want to use the extra you've saved on the wasteful CPU, to get yourself a larger hard drive, or indeed multiple smaller hard drives if that floats your boat?

Again, not everyone needs that much space. Some people think 60gigs is a lot of space. Someone that only uses their pc for mp3s a 320gig is perfect. Someone that needs more space will still add their 1TB to the build.

No, they dont need it, but if they have it they will start to use it, going to Lans, getting stuff to fill the drives with. Say for eg you're a gamer. Now you want to install all your games, and since you have that much space, you decide to back all your games up, just in case(you never know what could happen to thoes disks) Someone that only uses their PC for MP3s shouldnt look at any one of those systems as they're all overpriced for their needs, so bad example to use.

Considering the people that frequent these forums most have more than 1 or 2 apps open at a time. Even if each app itself isn't multithreaded, you still have a nippier system. How many people do you think encode videos on these forums?

All I'm hearing is noise here, I've told you what to come up with so that i can test it, results speak louder than opinions.

Also more and more games perform better with more cores GTAIV being one of the bigger examples. Even an oldish game like Supreme Commander performs better with more cores.

Better maybe, but good enough to justify the hideously increased price? Come up with the tests and then we'll talk.

Also not all people upgrade as often as enthusiasts do. For a pc that has to last 3 years+ a quad will is infinitely better.

Consider the Q6600 that was released 2 years ago(link). How many people are selling them off now? The E6700/E8400 was a far better buy.

But ok, lets say you want to use that Q9550 for almost 3 years. How do you think that will perform compared to i7(which will only get cheaper) over time? Sandy Bridge(link) is coming out in 2010, which will push i&s prices way way down. Then you'll be left with a slow as hell Q9550 where you can pick up a i7 920 for peanuts. Even if its delayed for a whole nother year, it still remains logical now to wait, buy a cheaper dualie.

On the quad-core issue, the Q8300 comes out next week, and looks damn well priced. If I were upgrading now, it would be a tough call between that an an equal priced E8x00.

Depending what your needs are this could be a good buy. The Quad has two more cores, but then the dualie has a 500MHZ and more cache per core(E series 6MB total vs Q series 4MB total), so it depends what you want really.