Official "System Builders" Thread

[CrashHelmut]

What we can do with the rest of the money we'll figure out later (and someone could help me find a Z77 ITX board). I'm off to bed!

I think I saw one somewhere... Yes, here you go: http://www.landmarkpc.co.za/store/as...tx-p-8620.html.

Are you sure that GTX670 would fit in that case? (I'm sure that cute Zotac GTX670 you posted in the other thread would work.)

There is something very alluring about building an ITX system. I just don't think that that the component choices are ideal for it yet. I'm thinking of getting a new system, and I've got a few unconventional ideas about it. It's just a pity that there are so few (if any!) good M-ATX chassis available in SA.

[Bandit]

It varies, from just a week, to 3 weeks to 2 months. I have a 2TB HDD right now along with several 1.5TB externals so I'm not really looking to buy new storage just yet.

EDIT: page refreshed as I posted so I saw your reply :) It seems like a cool idea so I was wondering: how hard would it be to attach a handle to the case that supports water cooling? The case is also really small, so would the radiator fit inside the case? Plus if I went with the one with the (awesome, little) handle then wouldn't cooling be a problem with just the one case fan and the PSU fan and all those hot components?

Also wouldn't a 420W PSU be an under performer for this setup? Plus the fifth page of the review mentions the possibility of having a water cooling system in the PC-TU200

EDIT EDIT: What do you think about getting one of these

[Wesley]

I think I saw one somewhere... Yes, here you go: http://www.landmarkpc.co.za/store/as...tx-p-8620.html.

Are you sure that GTX670 would fit in that case? (I'm sure that cute Zotac GTX670 you posted in the other thread would work.)

There is something very alluring about building an ITX system. I just don't think that that the component choices are ideal for it yet. I'm thinking of getting a new system, and I've got a few unconventional ideas about it. It's just a pity that there are so few (if any!) good M-ATX chassis available in SA.

Ah, Landmark, that's the name I was trying to remember last night - they have anything Rebeltech doesn't stock. I found the board I was originally looking for as well, so thanks.

As for the GPU, Techpowerup actually shoved a GTX280 in there with room to spare (check the review link). It gets its own vent at the bottom of the case and if some people put on taller feet, you could put a fan or two underneath there as well. The GTX680/GTX670 would work pretty well in there without much complaint. Lian Li actually makes some of the best ITX chassis options out there and I'd really like to move to ITX for my next build seeing as I just don't need that much storage (although it gives you plenty storage options anyway.

mATX chassis are also a bitch to figure out because very few companies build good ones - again, Lian Li is the only one I know that actually gets it right the first time. The only other options are Antec's Sonata and the Gigabyte GZ-X1. And what looks like the Elite 240 from Cooler Master, although I can't even find internal pics for it.

It varies, from just a week, to 3 weeks to 2 months. I have a 2TB HDD right now along with several 1.5TB externals so I'm not really looking to buy new storage just yet.

Well its your baby really. You could just fit in your 2TB and a 64GB SSD for a drive cache and be done with it. You'd get similar read and write speeds to a plain SSD setup without the storage limit but it takes about a week or use to get it working properly.

EDIT: page refreshed as I posted so I saw your reply :) It seems like a cool idea so I was wondering: how hard would it be to attach a handle to the case that supports water cooling? The case is also really small, so would the radiator fit inside the case? Plus if I went with the one with the (awesome, little) handle then wouldn't cooling be a problem with just the one case fan and the PSU fan and all those hot components?

Also wouldn't a 420W PSU be an under performer for this setup? Plus the fifth page of the review mentions the possibility of having a water cooling system in the PC-TU200

I don't think it would be hard. You'd have to mount the handle sideways and perhaps use a combination of threaded bolts and nuts to get a good and solid fit and you could probably use any handle you can find. I saw that Wizzard mentioned the water cooling part and I think he could have confused that with the other similar chassis with the 120mm fan on the top. The only way It could possibly work is if there's no GPU and you use the vents at the bottom to mount the radiator and fan.

Heat also wouldn't be an issue, really. the GPU gets vents from the bottom of the chassis and most reference coolers work pretty well to get heat out the exhaust at the back. The 140mm fan actually pushes in more air because its now forcing it into a tiny chassis so there'd be plenty of cool air to work with. And since the PSU will be sucking hot air out the chassis there won't be overheating worries.

The PSU is perfectly fine though. The CPU would drain about 90watts and the GTX670 would take about 190watts at maximum load, totaling those two at 280w. Then add another 50w on there if you're throwing in four hard drives, a DVD drive and a SSD. Its enough for a small system but its also mostly down to the size requirements. The Silent Pro has a 135mm fan, so its shorter and will fit in there better.
If you're still uncertain, there's the Silent Pro M520 to swap in.

The bag is a nice idea. I guess it would work if you're set on a mid-tower chassis but you'd still have to surrender it to the airport staff. The padding would definitely help as well. I don't move my rig around that much so its not something I can see myself using. People going to rAge could use one of those, though.

Oh and swap out the Intel board in my list with this one:

Asrock Z77 E-ITX @ R1670

[Bandit]

The PSU is perfectly fine though. The CPU would drain about 90watts and the GTX670 would take about 190watts at maximum load, totaling those two at 280w. Then add another 50w on there if you're throwing in four hard drives, a DVD drive and a SSD. Its enough for a small system but its also mostly down to the size requirements. The Silent Pro has a 135mm fan, so its shorter and will fit in there better.
If you're still uncertain, there's the Silent Pro M520 to swap in.

Forgive me if this sounds odd... but it's 1k for a 520W PSU =/

The bag is a nice idea. I guess it would work if you're set on a mid-tower chassis but you'd still have to surrender it to the airport staff. The padding would definitely help as well. I don't move my rig around that much so its not something I can see myself using. People going to rAge could use one of those, though.

I'll definitely be deliberating between the two...

Would you happen to know anyone in durban who would be able to get all the parts and put it together for a reasonable fee (especially if I was considering adding a handle to the case that supports water cooling)? I'd preferably try to stay away from PC Zone, since they've apparently got sub-par customer service, I'll swing by matrix and ask them maybe?

PS: Advice on the peripherals I mentioned?

[Wesley]

Forgive me if this sounds odd... but it's 1k for a 520W PSU =/

Its actually the norm, oddly enough. Its a rebranded Seasonic modular unit and most of the others that are in the same price range and wattage are usually Seasonic units as well, with exception to Antec and Thermaltake who use other manufacturers. 5-year warranteed 80-Plus Bronze modular PSUs mostly retail for over R900. If Silverstone's Strider wasn't constantly out of stock I'd recommend that rather.

Would you happen to know anyone in durban who would be able to get all the parts and put it together for a reasonable fee (especially if I was considering adding a handle to the case that supports water cooling)? I'd preferably try to stay away from PC Zone, since they've apparently got sub-par customer service, I'll swing by matrix and ask them maybe?

Why don't you install everything yourself? There's almost zero chance that you could even short something out, let alone completely destroy hardware. Its rewarding to do and once you're finished it'll feel like a great accomplishment to push on that power button and see everything boot up. I wouldn't let anyone else assemble my hardware for me, just like I don't let anyone else service my car. I can do a better job than the lab monkeys in most shops and its actually quite relaxing for me.

PS: Advice on the peripherals I mentioned?

I have no problems with your peripherals - the mouse and keyboard are great choices. I've little experience in headphones because I'm deaf and can't afford gaming ones anyway. But if I had to choose...

Cooler Master Sirus-S @ R784
Saitek Cyborg R.A.T 7 @ R865

[Bandit]

Well you're the expert :)

I need help with the know how with adding the handle since I don't have the tools either, I'll ask around I guess.

Any idea how durable the case would be and how reliable the connections would be with the travelling (+turbulence) and how I could protect the gear? I read in the article about some sort of beam for the GPU.

One last thing... would you happen to know of a protective carry bag/case for a 22" monitor?
Thanks for all the help so far Wesley!

[Wesley]

What you could do, rather, is just use a good carry bag for the PC-08. Maybe one of those fabric ones you can buy from Checkers or Pick n Pay, because those are very sturdy and durable. I say get the PC-08, put a 120mm fan and radiator at the top with water cooling and use the bag to transport it in for now. Perhaps if you stop to look at things at rAge this year, there'll be a booth that sells velcro strap portable carriers that one of my friends bought last year.

As for the durability, all Lian Li chassis are made out of aluminium so they'll last you a lifetime of bumps and scratches and bends. The most you could really do for the GPU inside is just make sure the screws are tightened nicely and that you keep the chassis upright. Most things inside a PC actually don't come apart that easily and it takes dropping it to actually dislodge anything.

I've never actually seen a protective bag for a monitor. Why don't you buy a second monitor that you keep at wherever you stay in Joburg? That saves you the trouble of lugging it around and it means less stuff to pack away and carry. Unless you're in university and living on campus or in your own flat in which case I understand the issue. Its a pity USB monitors have so much lag, else I'd recommend one of those for when you're travelling.

But you know what's really funny? At the end of it all it actually looks like a laptop is an easier choice :-P Maybe this is all just a nice dream because R20,000 gets you in the Alienware, ASUS ROG and Quosimo range.

[Bandit]

Well that makes sense I've got someone I could easily leave the monitor with I guess... figured I'd get way more performance out of this option than the laptop route so I'm gonna explore it a bit further ;)

[Wesley]

Well that makes sense I've got someone I could easily leave the monitor with I guess... figured I'd get way more performance out of this option than the laptop route so I'm gonna explore it a bit further ;)

I guess it depends on your settings, really. 720p and high or ultra on a R20k-ish laptop would actually be pretty smooth. If you want I'll list a few options for you as well to look at, as more Ivy Bridge models are popping up every day now.

[Bandit]

Please do :) I'll mainly be on BF3, HoN, Skyrim, GW2 (eventually) and WoW (if I resub XD) in that order of game time
Preferably those which will give me a worthwhile boost over my MSI GX740:
i7-740QM
HD5870 1GB
4GB DDR3
17" max res 1680x1050

[Wesley]

ASUS G55VW @ R21840
Toshiba Qosimio X870-F31X @ R20632
Samsung NP700 @ R17248 + Corsair Force3 180GB @ R2515

The Toshiba is the fastest out of the lot by a clear mile; the ASUS has better build quality and looks and the Samsung has the best warranty out of all of them. Both the Qosimio and the Samsung NP700 have two hard drives but the Samsung is cheaper, so you can take out one drive, use it for backup or storage purposes and shove a SSD in as your booth and gaming drive. The NP700 also has a 3D-capable screen and comes with compatible glasses as well.

All can play games at 1080p with high or ultra settings depending on the title with average frame rates in the mid-40s to high 50s. If it were me, I'd get the Samsung and just drop the resolution to 720p in order to keep things playable by year three. For you, though, the Qosimio is the ultimate gaming laptop available at that price and you'd still be on Ultra settings at 1080p near to the end of its warranty.

It also has a red backlit keyboard (much easier on the eyes). Just so you know.

[Bandit]

Thanks for everything Wesley! I rate I'll go for the Qosmio if I don't get the ITX setup.

[Wesley]

System Builders Guide: June R13,000 to R18,000

Hello boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, gamers and trolls! Welcome to the final System Builder's column for this month. I just thought I'd break the monotony here for one moment by announcing that next month I'm going back to checking out laptops at the same price points I've covered this month, just to keep things even. I will also be posting another, less-frequent guide for AMD fans. Now, I know you lot are a little depressed right now but don't worry! I've got some things worked out for you and you may even be surprised at what the Bulldozer platform allows me to squeeze in.



But for now we dive back into the high-end and see what kind of hardware we could get for these two price points. Note that when we get back to desktops in August it will be mostly dominated by the new Ivy Bridge Pentiums and Core i3 processors so if you're holding out and saving, just hold out for another month more. I promise you, its going to be worth it.

Linky

[Wesley]

System Builder's Guide: R18k comparison with Tom's Hardware

In my last two comparisons, it looked like Tom's Hardware's lab team had gone nuts, pairing the most unconventional builds together and choosing the worst chassis on the market. While they don't cover the kinds of price points I do, we do meet up on some line and that's where our train stops this month with my R18,000 listing to their $2000 build, which works out to roughly R16,500.

Linky

[Jay]

Hey Wes,

Thank so much for the latest System's builders guide. There are a couple things in the guide that I wouldnt need or atleast I think i wouldnt need. I have a decent chassis and enough hard drive space. I need to spend R12000 on a processor, motherboard, RAM, SSD and graphics card. Could you recommend a few components?

I also read about a feature that some motherboards allow that involves ur SSD to be used as virtual memory kinda i think. I was wondering if this is a good feature to take advantage of because SSD are so expensive. I would like to keep media and basically slower programs on a normal hardrive then give the SSD to the OS and this feature i have mentioned. I hope I am making sense here.

Thanks for all the help,

[Wesley]

Hi Jay, welcome to the forum!

For your budget I'd recommend the following:

Intel Core i7 3770K @ R3414
ASRock Z77 Extreme4 @ R1556
TEAM Xtreem Dark DDR3-1600 16GB @ R850
Patriot Pyro SE 120GB @ R1473
Cooler Master Silent Pro M2 @ R1083
PNY GTX670 XLR8 2GB DDR5 or Gigabyte HD7950 Windforce 3GB DDR5
Antec KÜHLER 620 @ R651

That's what I'd recommend you go with. The SSD is big enough for your OS install and all your apps and a few frequently-played games. When you're setting up your rig, follow this SSD install guide to make the most out of the drive. I also put in a PSU because chances are your one might not be enough to power the rig. If, however, you have a decent PSU with about 650w to offer, you can chuck out the Silent Pro M2 for something else, perhaps for a few games or a better version of the GTX670.

As for your SSD question, what I believe you're thinking of is drive caching. Using a 64GB or smaller drive, you can set the OS to cache all your frequently-used data to the SSD for quicker access, while still regularly installing stuff on your mechanical hard drive. Its a good idea for systems that already have been set up and also support Intel's RST technology, but if you're starting from fresh anyway you might as well get a bigger SSD and use all of it for the OS.

You can also set up your system to use the other drives for housing your media and stiff while keeping the SSD just for the OS, apps and a few games. The guide I linked does that and there's a lot of ways you can configure Windows 7 to make it work better for you.

[McDangerous]

That's why the Libraries function in Windows 7 is probably the best feature Microsoft has come up with to date. Create folders on your Data/Media drive, add them to the library and set them as the default save location. That way, every time you reinstall widows you won't have to worry about backing up your important data.

[Witblits]

Okay so I've placed the order for the following PC:

Proc: 1x CP-IS3770K Intel i7-3770K Q+HT 3.5/3.9
Mobo: 1x MB-AP8Z77VD Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe
GFX: 1x SC-A680 ASUS GTX680
RAM: 2x ME-C4G3L16X9X2W CML8GX3M2A1600C9W Veng LP 4x2
Storage1: 1x HD-CN256PP Corsair 2.5 PerformancePro 256
Storage1: 1x HD-W3000S6G64 WD30EZRX 3Tb Sata6G GRN 64mb
Chassis: 1x CH-C600TW Corsair CC600TWM window+meshed
PSU: 1x PS-C850HXM Corsair 850w HX Series
Keyboard: 1x KE-LG510 Logitech G510
Mouse: 1x MO-LG700 Logitech G700
DVD: 1x DW-LIHES312 Lite-on iHES-312 16xdw+12xBR
Screen: 1x LC-S24B370H Samsung s24B370H 24" LED

TOTAL PRICE +/- R29,000 incl VAT

Any last comments on this build? Still got time untill Monday to change small things as the GFX is only arriving then.

I'm not to concerned about saving a R1,000 here or there as this PC should hopefully last me the next 3 years or so.

Thank you!

[Toxxyc]

Maybe change the DVD-drive to a more reputable brand like Samsung or LG. I'm NOT a fan of Lite-On, I've seen two drives die in a year's time in my household.

[Lysis]

Yeah don't get the Lite-On. Whilst mine hasn't failed completely, half the time it gets stuck in the process of opening. Lite-On makes crappy drives and the other brands are only a few Rands more expensive.