Competition 24: Coherence

[dislekcia]

Comp 24: Coherence

This month's challenge is a little different. We've already had a stab (a very successful stab) at rethinking existing games via different genres... What if you were to tell the same story through different gameplay mechanics?

Design the same game twice. Then make the two "takes" on the concept hang together coherently. Have the story progress smoothly between the two, jump back and forth across the different gameplay elements, even combine the two seemingly disparate experiences later on in the game. What about going Guy Ritchie on it? Recently the question "Where's gaming's Memento?" popped up, let's answer that... In short: As long as we get to experience multiple genre conventions, play-styles or mechanics in your game, go wild!

Rules:

• Competition starts on December 10th 2009, 10-12-2009.
• Deadline is January 31st 2010, 31-01-2010.
• Have multiple genres/play-styles/game mechanics in the same game.
• Yes, you can have more than 2 game-styles, just in case your time-machine is in full working order.
• Ask for help when you get stuck, share ideas and be awesome to each other.
• Any releases must contain all files needed to run and should not require other bulky systems to be downloaded or installed, exceptions are browser plugins like Flash and self-contained dlls distributed with the game).
• Any releases entry must include a readme.txt that EXPLAINS THE CONTROLS, RULES and any other information you want to get across to your users. IT MUST ALSO LINK BACK TO THIS COMPETITION POST!
• Competition is open to entry for South African citizens, current residents of South Africa and South African passport holders.
• The judges' decision is final and no negotiation will be entered into. All risk or liability in case of copyright infringement or other legal issue resides with the entrant, Game.Dev and NAG take no responsibility for entered games.

Entering:
To enter the competition, start a thread titled "24: <NameOfGame>" and post your design ideas and game releases there. As you release files, edit your first post to point to the most recent versions available.

Other people WILL reply to your post with their feedback and ideas, it's a fact that games that allow forumites to give their feedback do better in competitions. Please report any offensive comments to me for moderation. Consider releasing your source code, it helps us pinpoint problems that you might be having and benefits the community as a whole.

Advice:
Focus on having something you want to tell or get across to players. Then build your game around that. The simpler and more succinct your message (whatever it might be), the easier it's going to be to come up with different ways to tell it.

Don't discount card games, board games and other mechanisms that aren't usually a part of "standard" game interaction. Try to come up with synergies that you could use to good effect: What about a card game whose pickup rules are influenced by a management game going on at the same time?

...

Good luck and enjoy the competition. I'm expecting this to be far too AWESOME :)

[Bonezmann]

So we fuse two genres into one? Or do we make one game, varying two genres from level to level? Excuse my stupidity, but I don't understand completely. :)

[edg3]

I just got an idea!!

Hmm, now, how to put it together >:D this wil be fun.

[Fengol]

The way I understand it, it can be combined or seperate. So you could have an RPG with a character walking around and talking to people and then a schump (so the hero is a pilot or something).

A game that I can think of that has 2 distinct elements is X-Com with it's base building, research and incident management and then the tactical scenarios. Then there's Star Control 2 with heavy exploration and storytelling with Spacewar! combat.

Am I right?

[dammit]

What about combining a card game and a board game? Would that count as two separate mechanics? Also, crap, I didn't want to get involved with this comp :<

[Bonezmann]

Originally Posted by dammit

What about combining a card game and a board game? Would that count as two separate mechanics? Also, crap, I didn't want to get involved with this comp :<

If that could work, I've got a killer idea!

[Fengol]

I don't know why, but I feel compelled to do something with trains in this comp :S

[AndrewJ]

Originally Posted by Fengol

I don't know why, but I feel compelled to do something with trains in this comp :S

Sorta like the brilliant (IMHO) The Train: Escape to Normandy? I really enjoyed that game!!! Hmmm... I wonder if I have a copy lying around somewhere? I must go look for it.

[DukeOFprunes]

Just trying to understand the concept here.

If I get this correctly, it's a mashup of two genres, like Comp 22, but different how? Or, instead of mixing it into the same game, you mean we actually make the same game twice except, per example, you play 10 minutes of it as a SHMUP and the next 10 minutes as an RPG and try to have them both tell the same story?

Confused.

[Fengol]

Reading it again, yes it's like Comp 22 but the original game you must design and implement as well and then the twist is you must put BOTH games into one.

So for example, I can make a Elite type game with a topdown shooter; exploring the universe and trading. Then I make a card game about space exploration and trading. Finally, I put make a game that uses both mechanics.

[Fengol]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Sorta like the brilliant (IMHO) The Train: Escape to Normandy? I really enjoyed that game!!! Hmmm... I wonder if I have a copy lying around somewhere? I must go look for it.

Exactly :D

[BlackShipsFillt]

Oooh... It's a very interesting competition indeed...

From a mash-up perspective I think this is a BRILLIANT approach to design because it forces the designer to make each mechanic enjoyable on it's own (though I understand mash-ups aren't necessarily the goal).

There are actually some pretty awful examples of this sort of design that fail horribly... Like quick-time events in first person shooters... (maybe I'm being subjective here, but I really don't think quick-time events add anything)

But allot of great older games got it right... I loved XCom and Starcontrol...My personal favourite was Pizza Tycoon (nothing can beat blowing up the opposition's restaurant in a top-down shooter within a tycoon game)...

I think the key to the competition is to tell a part of the story that could only be told with a significant change in gameplay (or otherwise a cutscene)... My own idea is a bit of an imperfect fit (it'll hopefully be a strategy/defence/shooter/simulation) in that it'll work better as a mash-up than 4 separate games, but it's a very exciting brief (And it's about time I participated in one of these things).

[dislekcia]

Originally Posted by DukeOFprunes

Just trying to understand the concept here. If I get this correctly, it's a mashup of two genres, like Comp 22, but different how? Or, instead of mixing it into the same game, you mean we actually make the same game twice except, per example, you play 10 minutes of it as a SHMUP and the next 10 minutes as an RPG and try to have them both tell the same story? Confused.

It's a mashup, but not of content. Your goal is to mashup gameplay mechanics with the same/related content kept coherent across the mashup. The idea is that people will find new and interesting ways to relate disparate gameplay. In doing that, they'll learn things about telling stories with games and where the boundary between gameplay and experience actually is ;)

[dislekcia]

Originally Posted by BlackShipsFillt

There are actually some pretty awful examples of this sort of design that fail horribly... Like quick-time events in first person shooters... (maybe I'm being subjective here, but I really don't think quick-time events add anything) But allot of great older games got it right... I loved XCom and Starcontrol...My personal favourite was Pizza Tycoon (nothing can beat blowing up the opposition's restaurant in a top-down shooter within a tycoon game)...

Exactly. Back in the day we used to see a lot of this sort of gameplay switchup when it made sense in games: Starcon2 and Xcom are great examples of this. Even Dungeon Keeper did it to a degree. Syndicate had the management/economy sim/setup phase and then the agent-based gameplay. We don't see that as much today, genres are things that "describe" entire games instead of just being words we use to relate gameplay mechanics. If you fall "outside" a genre, that's become a bad thing. Why?

Quicktime events are the one exception, they're used really badly all over the place. Does that mean they're a crap mechanic or can they be used well in a context that makes them coherent at some point? I dunno. That's why I'm asking Game.Dev the question in the form of a comp :)

[SkinkLizzard]

would godfather 2 be a sort of example of this what with the management aspect of the don view and
the first/third person carnage shooter aspect ?
or am I still not getting it ?

[Fengol]

Godfather 2 is a good example :D

[SkinkLizzard]

:) now that I understand what is required of me I have an idea that will work
if I finish in time

[dislekcia]

Originally Posted by SkinkLizzard

:) now that I understand what is required of me I have an idea that will work if I finish in time

You've got nearly 2 months! ;)

[DukeOFprunes]

Okie dokie, so you essentially want the mechanics of two genres, not blended into one mutant thing like with Comp22 but instead keeping their gameplay mechanics separate and pure, and in spite of being two different genres altogether, they still have to promote a single coherent narrative, or objective?

So it's something like Archon, where you play "chess", and only when one piece takes another, gameplay changes entirely to an arcade-style fight between them, the outcome of which deciding the winning piece?

Like the way Brutal Legend is a sandbox open-world exploration game GTA-style with Sacrifice-style RTS bits to advance the plot?

Like Heroes of Might & Magic where you have city management, map exploration and combat all handled as three completely different interactions, but all work together to further the game?

Maybe even Bioshock's hacking minigame except here it'd be a more fundamental part of the game itself... am I on the right track?

[BlackShipsFillt]

Originally Posted by dislekcia

If you fall "outside" a genre, that's become a bad thing. Why?

The trouble is the game market has become so stratisfied. You can see this kind of thing in movies and music as well. If for instance you sell a strategy game to a customer, but half way through the player has to complete a shoot'emup section and, although some players will appreciate the diversity, a couple players will hate it... All of a sudden the game gets a few very negative reviews and it only makes a fraction of the sales. This is natural and unavoidable, but that doesn't mean one cannot make a hit game for the players that appreciate diversity, it just means the game will have to target a smaller, more indie, audience (which could still be a huge audience - 5 million sales is awesome, but 50000 is still pretty sweet) and business-wise it can make sense to target a more fringe audience. Games like Starcontrol and XCom simply could not be successful as mainstream games in today's environment unless they spent sequal after sequal acclimatizing players to their mix of gameplay and slowly built up a dedicated following.

Look at Spore... Maxis is having to lay people off because it didn't make enough money... Spore is an astounding game for a particular player, but for some gamers it tried too many different things and didn't do all of them well enough... Point is it is easier to do one thing right than many and big companies cannot (and shouldn't be expected to) afford any missteps.