20: *

[Kensei]

Ok, I have not completely thought out this idea yet, so expect me to add replies as I do. I just want to get this out of my head and onto something concrete so I don't spend all day thinking about it :D

As always, my projects are quite ambitious, but I will attempt to make this one scalable without too much fanfare in the beginning.

Right, the concept:

You are the great <insert funny name here> and have come to the land of <funny name here> in search of quests, because you have no life and get some form of simple joy for finding items for other people.

This game will be, likely, some form of a platformer, perhaps with RPG elements and will likely consist of a myriad of 'fetch' quests similar to most RPGs found on the market today.

So yeah, that is what I have so far...

Any comments? Does it sound doable?

I will as this now: Is it advisable to use global variables for this kind of game? i.e. I need a persistent health meter for the character
Edit: I will be using Game Maker for this project

Releases
Prototype 1 - RAR version
Prototype 1 - EXE version

Prototype 2- RAR version
Prototype 2 - EXE version

Prototype 3 - EXE version

Prototype 4 - RAR version (1.6mb)

Version 1.0 - EXE edition (2.66mb)

Version 2.1 - EXE Edition (about 3.40mb)

Final Version

[Kensei]

ok-ay...er... glad to see I have some interest going :D

Further details on the concept.

The way things will be communicated for the quest is dead easy :)

You approach your 'Stay a while and listen Cain lookalike' [SAWALCL] (who conveniently has an exclamation point above his head). When you ask him for a quest, he returns with an image of the next item you need to find, e.g. a yellow triangle

Then you embark on a mini quest to find this yellow triangle, battling monsters and being generally heroic, and retrieve the yellow triangle. (This is on level one difficulty perhaps)
You return the item to the 'SAWALCL' who rewards you with something, then gives you another item to find.

The difficulty could increase either with more monsters to defeat, puzzle elements, finding an item that looks almost like the item needed... etc.

[ShadowMaster]

Sounds a bit like Knytt, not that that is at all bad ;)

Perhaps you could take a look at that for inspiration.

EDIT: though I suspect you are gonna go top down aren't you?

[Kensei]

It's been a while since I played Knytt, I kinda don't remember the fetch and return part of that game...
In fact, all I remember was running around not getting anywhere in that game :(

[Fengol]

it you were making a platformer it would be cool if you could pick up shapes and throw them (Mario\Link style) to get around the level (triangles as ramps, blocks to reach high places, circles to plug holes, etc).

I think you're going to have more success making a Zelda platformer than a Diablo RPG. I also think rather than a SAWALCL, you should give the mosaic they need to complete so I can choose which piece to pick up in any order.

[Thaumaturge]

This sounds as though it could be a fun game, Kensei. I like it. ^_^

My only concern is that the fetch quests could become rather repetitive - however, don't have it go on for longer than the gameplay supports well, and mix the gameplay challenges a little between quests, and it could well work. ^_^

Originally Posted by Fengol

I also think rather than a SAWALCL, you should give the mosaic they need to complete so I can choose which piece to pick up in any order.

This sounds like a very good idea to me. Instead of an increase in the degree of the same challenge, you could instead go for variation in challenge, and allow the player to select their order of gameplay - getting the triangle calls for lots of jumping, the square calls for lots of combat, the hexagon calls for some sort of level-wide logic puzzle to be solved, the octagon calls for exploration of an expansive level, etc...

Originally Posted by Kensei

As always, my projects are quite ambitious, but I will attempt to make this one scalable without too much fanfare in the beginning.

I don't think that it should be too hard, if you start off with simple gameplay that can be extended, as you say. For example, you could start of with combat consisting only of ranged weapons, which differ only in damage dealt and perhaps appearance. Similarly, if you go with some puzzle elements, a basic "key"/"door" and/or 'switch"/"door" mechanism shouldn't be too hard to implement, perhaps allowing for a list of keys/switches respectively for a given door, all of which are called for in order to open the door; in the case of switches, this should be easy enough, depending on implementation, to next extend to allow for the requirement that certain switches be off, I believe.

Originally Posted by Kensei

because you have no life and get some form of simple joy for finding items for other people.

I love this motivation. XD

[Kensei]

I am trying to avoid making this too much like a puzzle game.

I can understand, and will likely implement, a Legend of Zelda kind of approach with various 'puzzles' without it being overly like a puzzle game, if that makes sense.

[Thaumaturge]

Fair enough. ^_^

(Although I don't think that I've played any of the Zelda games, I think that I have an impression of what you mean. ^^; )

[Kensei]

Well, er, I have a prototype but I can't remember my password for the OpenHazel site so I can't upload it :(

[Thaumaturge]

Oh dear. ^^;

You could always make a temporary second account, I suppose - or even a new one, if you don't manage to recover or remember your password.

(I think that I may have done something like that myself towards the beginning of my time here. ^^; )

[Gazza_N]

Quote:

because you have no life and get some form of simple joy for finding items for other people.

I have to remember this one. :D

I await the prototype anxiously, so that I can make comments that are actually useful. :P

[Kensei]

Okay, first prototype is up

I have not done a 'tutorial' for the game yet, but let's see if you can figure out what to do

[Kensei]

<nevermind>

[Thaumaturge]

Hmm... I think that I've found all of the gameplay, but it doesn't all seem to be terribly intuitive to me, I'm afraid.

For example, there seems to be little to indicate which keys I should use. The movement keys are intuitive, but I didn't immediately guess that another key was called for. It also seems a little unintuitive to me that you seem to use physical collision for one interaction with the NPC and a key, possibly at range, for others.

I suggest either looking for a way to indicate to players the keys that are involved, or, perhaps better, remove that extra key and have the NPC give its results either on the player's collision with a potion bottle or on the player returning to and once again colliding with the NPC. Otherwise, you could instead perhaps use mouse-clicks to direct the player and interact with objects, and perhaps icons for certain interactions.

Finally, the first time that I successfully used that key, I was unfortunately in the wrong place, and got stuck under a suddenly-appearing potion bottle, although I get the impression that it's supposed to be a GUI element.

[Kensei]

Originally Posted by Thaumaturge

Finally, the first time that I successfully used that key, I was unfortunately in the wrong place, and got stuck under a suddenly-appearing potion bottle, although I get the impression that it's supposed to be a GUI element.

lol, sorry :D

This is exactly what the title states - a prototype -> to demonstrate the idea behind my game of 'fetch and return' :)
I know that the gameplay is not very intuitive... yet... that will come later.
I wanted to demonstrate the ability for a game savvy person to understand the concept of what was needed.

Thaum, did you understand what was required of you? i.e. Was the fact that you were 'looking' for a potion and the chest stored which potion you were carrying?

Edit: Umm, does someone have a good way of displaying a flash screen for the user? i.e. to display a clue?

[Thaumaturge]

Heheh, fair enough. :P

More or less, although it wasn't immediately apparent, as I recall.

As I recall: The exclamation point icon did work for me (perhaps from experience with those RPGs that have used similar icons). The question mark did indeed suggest that he wanted something, and the second question mark did connect his desire with the chest, I think. The latter mark changing to the icon of the potion indicated collection, I believe, but it was from there that things broke down a little for me, I think.

I think that the obvious thing for me, short of any instructions to the contrary, is then to go to him with the potion. Unfortunately, that doesn't work, so, as I recall, I started trying various keys for effects. I eventually found one that did - but was unfortunately beside the spectacle icon when I did, if I recall correctly. ^^;

Finally, for some reason I didn't immediately pick up the meaning of the red and green circles, thinking them desires - perhaps backing them up by changing their shapes to iconically represent their meaning would help. It would also help any colour-blind users that might play your game, I would imagine. ;)

Hmm... Another thing that I've just noticed is that the trick of connecting the chest and the NPC's desire using the two question marks breaks if the player goes to a potion first. Perhaps placing the question mark elsewhere, or finding another indicator (such as flashing or shaking the chest), might help for this case.

[Kensei]

Originally Posted by Thaumaturge

I think that the obvious thing for me, short of any instructions to the contrary, is then to go to him with the potion. Unfortunately, that doesn't work, so, as I recall, I started trying various keys for effects. I eventually found one that did - but was unfortunately beside the spectacle icon when I did, if I recall correctly. ^^;

Would be easier if I removed the need for you to press a button to give the potion to him?
Originally I was going to have two buttons, then realized it would be hard to explain, without text that you need to press 'T' to talk.

Originally Posted by Thaumaturge

Finally, for some reason I didn't immediately pick up the meaning of the red and green circles, thinking them desires - perhaps backing them up by changing their shapes to iconically represent their meaning would help. It would also help any colour-blind users that might play your game, I would imagine. ;)

I will change this to a different symbol. Perhaps a smiling face or a frowning face.

Originally Posted by Thaumaturge

Hmm... Another thing that I've just noticed is that the trick of connecting the chest and the NPC's desire using the two question marks breaks if the player goes to a potion first. Perhaps placing the question mark elsewhere, or finding another indicator (such as flashing or shaking the chest), might help for this case.

I will likely change this - the chest is meant to represent your inventory, so I will change this to a more appropriate symbol - perhaps a backpack :) And add a border around them to depict different slots in the inventory.

On a final note, I do like the idea of different challenges - I will likely have 3 types of challenges. Depending on time... need to make this game more interesting... since it is kind boring :P

[Kensei]

Ok, after a brief discussion with the clever man who is Cyberninja, I am going to put forth some ideas.

Fengol suggested using shapes to do things, like triangles for ramps, squares for platforms etc.

Building on that Cyberninja suggested:

Quote:

Oh what you could do is show a bubble above the wizards head when the player collides with him. Then show a graphic in the bubble telling the player what to do. Show a picture of a magic stone or something, followed by a "=" sigh, then a gold coins? indicating that the player needs to find the stone then he will be rewarded with coins

[Cyberninja]

^ Sorry about the spelling/errors above. ^ ^

[Thaumaturge]

Originally Posted by Kensei

Would be easier if I removed the need for you to press a button to give the potion to him?

I think so, yes - I would suggest either doing that or looking for a way of indicating the appropriate key (a little keyboard icon shown towards the beginning, for example, as in edg3's Stick Man Wars).

Originally Posted by Kensei

I will change this to a different symbol. Perhaps a smiling face or a frowning face.

Those sound good - they could be more expressive than my more formal idea of using check- and x- marks. ^_^

Originally Posted by Kensei

I will likely change this - the chest is meant to represent your inventory, so I will change this to a more appropriate symbol - perhaps a backpack And add a border around them to depict different slots in the inventory.

Fair enough - if you make it clear enough you should have little call for depicting a connection between the NPC and the inventory.

Of course, if you are going to have multiple inventory items, you can probably get away, I think, with simply providing inventory slots, and perhaps an appropriate icon. As items appear in the slots their purpose should, I would imagine become clear. ^_^

Quote:

Fengol suggested using shapes to do things, like triangles for ramps, squares for platforms etc. Building on that Cyberninja suggested: Quote: Oh what you could do is show a bubble above the wizards head when the player collides with him. Then show a graphic in the bubble telling the player what to do. Show a picture of a magic stone or something, followed by a "=" sigh, then a gold coins? indicating that the player needs to find the stone then he will be rewarded with coins

These sound like good ideas to me. ^_^

I do have a question: In Fengol's idea, the shapes seem to become the means to completing the quest, more than the objects of it (they would presumably be short-term goals, since you want to get them in order to build bridges and the like, but you want to do so in order, I imagine, to get to something else). I take it that the objects of the quest are those things that the NPC requests - are these just other shapes, and if so, what differentiates them? Or are you sticking with the potions as the goals?

(*imagines this being a quest for the golden shapes of DOOOM...* ;)

Heh, in fact, if I were making this game I might be tempted to make the shapes various pieces of some arcane symbol - a seven-pointed star, a circle, etc... ;P)

Heh, it just occurred to me that this is a game in which it would seem that the NPC's reaction to being bumped into is to give the bumping person a quest. :P